Psychdoc's Credit Repair for Beginners

PSYCHDOC'S CREDIT REPAIR SCHOOL FOR BEGINNERS by Randy Padawer (PsychDoc)...CREDIT 101: The Ethics of Credit Repair, 9/8/2005 CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview, 9/22/2005 CREDIT 103: Credit Reports & Credit Scores, 10/6/2005 CREDIT 104: Triaging Your Reports, 10/20, 2005 CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting, 11/3/2005 CREDIT 106: FCBA Street Fighting, 11/17/2005 CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting, 12/1/2005 CREDIT 108: Small Claims Lawsuits, 12/15/2005 1 LESSON ONE TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 101: The Ethics of Credit Repair, 9/8/2005 First, when we talk about credit repair we're talking about a number of things really. Is credit repair about making your credit report more accurate? Is credit repair about "fixing" your credit report? What's credit repair? Is credit repair about getting better rates on loans? Getting credit cards? Buying a car? Is credit repair about debt negotiation? Debt reduction? Debt elimination? Learning tricks to improve your credit score? When you talk about getting your life back in order, I'm guessing that (like me at one time) bad credit has caused some heartache for you!? I remember when I couldn't buy a car... We'll touch on all of these during the next few weeks, but the emphasis will be upon removing negatives from your credit report. When negatives peel away, your credit score typically improves. And when that happens, you'll get better rates on loans. Moreover, as a happy consequence of confronting what's on your credit report, you may find that alleged (I'll explain that adjective in Lesson 7) creditors may forgive alleged debts. But debt forgiveness is a possible symptom. My emphasis is about your credit reports. Everyone has to define their own emphasis though. I've done some writing and seminar facilitation for The Motley Fool (Fool.com), and I got into a bit of trouble as a result of that involvement one fine autumn day a couple of years ago. Equifax was (and maybe continues to be) an advertiser with their website, and they didn't much like it when I wrote stuff like this... to quote... "There are a few hardball tactics which you can use with the bureaus and creditors that will compel them to remove negative tradelines, irrespective of accuracy, from your credit reports." Basically, Equifax contended that I was breaking the law when I made that statement, and my Foolish colleagues agreed. So we watered down my statements a bit. We gave in. We caved. We sold out. QUESTION for discussion... Does anybody know how my statements may have constituted lawbreaking? anybody know why Equifax thought I'd broken the law? all of us who tell another human being is defined as a CRO by federal law... crazy huh Section 404 ("Prohibited Practices") of the Credit Repair Organizations Act (CROA) reads, "No person may..."Now before I say another word, note that 2 CROA doesn't say, "No credit repair organization may..." or even "No organization may..." Rather it says, "No person may..." and continues "make any statement, or counsel or advise any consumer to make any statement, which is untrue or misleading... with respect to any consumer's credit worthiness, credit standing, or credit capacity to... any [credit bureau]... or any creditor." it almost seems to violate the First Amendment! Nobody's ever challenged that incourt. I think it would fall flat. But... As I sit here tonight I am a CRO of one person. Equifax basically said that the phrase "irrespective of accuracy" meant that I was advising people to disregard the truth when making statements about themselves, that this violated federal law, and that if I didn't revise my tune they might not be interested in advertising with The Motley Fool anymore. Guess what? Equifax was wrong. There ARE some things which may compel a credit bureau or creditor to remove items from a credit report IRRESPECTIVE OF ACCURACY... and YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL LIES in order for that to happen. In fact, let me say it more plainly...I call these PSYCHDOC'S FIVE BASIC CREDIT REPAIR PRINCIPLES... 1) You should always TELL THE TRUTH when communicating with credit bureaus and those companies which report to them. 2) Telling the truth is usually more INTIMIDATING to those entities. 3) Telling the truth is almost always more EFFECTIVE vis-a-vis your goals. 4) Credit repair involves INTERVENTIONS which invoke one of three TRUTHFUL communication tactics: a) polite requests, b} requests for information, and c) legal demands. and the last one... 5) Credit repair involves leveraging your FEDERAL CIVIL RIGHTS in the service of improving your credit rating. Another quick definition... I use the word INTERVENTION a lot. Basically a credit repair intervention is anything you do to intervene against the current credit status quo. Interventions include credit bureau disputes, goodwill requests, escalated information requests (which include creditor-directed communications like the "Nutcase" series and other effective tactics), formal requests for validation, and more. Such interventions usually take the form of things like hard- 3 You're presenting yourself as someone I like to term "a litigious nutcase".. etc. consider this: In the case of credit bureau disputes.. We'll talk about small claims in Lesson 8. But a carefully written letter that reveals the writer to be educated to their rights. Now.. smoke signals [forget it].. "not mine..is far worse for them potentially.. The CRAs read lies all the time.gif well. depending]. With inquiries. if indeed you wanted to take the bureau to court.. The bureaus don't want to get a letter from somebody who knows their rights and who can spell out what it is they need to do. many people have achieved great results saying.. "The Sears tradeline (account 12345) is not mine" versus "Provide documentation that the Sears tradeline (account 12345) belongs on my credit report and that my rights have not been abrogated. "It's not mine" (and it's yours).. It wasn't as tough as that sounds.. phone calls [iffy].. you're treading some really rough territory. does anybody have any ideas how one can dispute an accurate negative listing without lying? Discussion question. You want your documentation with them to be 100% honest and on the mark. ha. Otherwise you are bound by federal law to remove this inquiry now. etc.. Well...we'll definitely have a hard copy discussion .. I sued all three CRAs in small claims court a few years ago. The same logic applies to creditors as with CRAs. But that's not where this lesson is heading. I've been asked. gee whiz. and it is reported as late because it was truly late. I would say "Please show documentation that the creditor gave evidence of their permissible purpose when requesting access to my report.. how can one dispute an accurate negative without lying? any old-timers care to chime in? well. templates. Will provide some letters. smile. Otherwise please delete this damaging data. how can one dispute a negative that is accurate with a credit bureau without telling a lie? As an aside right now. internet-based communications [sometimes ok..We'll explore ETHICAL DISPUTING examples more fully in the fifth lesson (CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting) For now. though.." When you say.copy letters [best].. but you're not shouting.you're not being 4 . I have ALWAYS contended that truthful words are more intimidating than a simple lie. what if it's yours? What if something is yours on your report. it's the difference between saying. The problem comes later.. and you're not telling lies. b} "requests for information" . lol) Much more powerful.especially if the stakes are low -. and that's better. ha but I want to repeat one thing that was a cut and paste from earlier.. Polite requests may be goodwill requests. The truth is in the asking If you look back over this transcript in the chat window to where I talked about the types of interventions (my fourth basic law. and for CRA disputes as well CRAs don't provide account information like that but they are compelled to provide the information that federal law spells out in the FDCPA in the FCRA. I used to teach child psych at the University of Tennessee. That's a very over-simplified way to "map" it out in your mind... those types of interventions include original creditor "validation" (so-called... Some creditors in that situation-... That's the desired outcome for FDCPA validation. it's the difference between saying. b} requests for information. FCRA compels credit bureaus.) 4) Credit repair involves INTERVENTIONS which invoke one of three TRUTHFUL communication tactics: a) polite requests. please provide documentation regarding every transaction ever associated with this account.... When you say. "The Sears tradeline (account 12345) is not mine" versus "Provide documentation that the Sears tradeline (account 12345) belongs on my credit report and that my rights have not been abrogated. and for FCBA escalated information requests. When you say. the line is drawn in the sand... "This wasn't mine" and they basically know different...and they often do." Then their heads spin (you hope.impolite. They don't know where you're coming from... In fact. and I was famous for repeating myself. Lesson 6 or debt validation (Lesson 7) where basically you're asking the CRA (in the case of the HONEST AND ETHICAL dispute I mentioned before) or the creditor for more information that they simply don't want to take the time to provide necessariliy.. Or it may just be you begging Lowe's credit to remove that 30 day late from 3 years ago (which they may do)... we'll open that bag of worms in Lesson 7 oops. Otherwise 5 .will simply delete the negs rather than fool with it. you're not making accusations.. FCBA compels original creditors. and c) legal demands.. "Pursuant to my rights under the Fair Credit Billing Act.. FDCPA compels third party collectors.with respect to CRAs.. In the case of credit bureau disputes.. .. I just never understood those consumer advocates who believed that they needed to advise others to tell lies. and you'll likely share them with others! Then.You'll be more focused." "If these items appear in error. the last portion of tonight's syllabus. It's hard for me to get away from my background in psychology.. I think it was Missbee who said she wanted a house you just have to know what you want fantastic. Otherwise please delete this damaging data...as with just about any worthwhile endeavor in life... 6 .. A note about attitude. etc."would probably get OLD fast... a few years later. ha?! Now... you could group a couple together.. that sample CRA dispute I just provided... In this regard.) In other words. It's helpful in credit repair.. Finally. Request ample documentation from these two alleged creditors.. "As you read the statute... You'll find yourself creating variations on those kinds of interventions.. you'll lead a class like this... lies just don't work as well.. a few suggestions have worked for me.. The CROA notwithstanding. "Demonstrate that this material appears correctly on my reports.those laws include. 2) Learn about the various laws discussed on Creditboards.except more powerful because they don't know where you're going next (EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDN'T THREATEN A LAWSUIT EITHER) brevity is good Ok. "Provide documentation that the Sears tradeline (account 12345) belongs on my credit report and that my rights have not been abrogated. So this brings us to the next item on tonight's syllabus What are your credit repair goals? We did cover this a bit at the beginning..think of your own words but the point is the same ask them to prove it and don't you lie To risk moving away from psychology and entering the realm of the preacher.. ha.... You could send them separate. and interact with others on Creditboards... in real life.... and I'll interject from my prepared notes. 1) Be serious. Once you know..... LOL.to know your goals before you embark. (If you still find the material interesting." See what you can do. those words will have the same impact as a "not mine" -. minimally.please delete this damaging data..... and become more familiar with the law and become more comfortable with the material. I have a cause for action because my rights may have been abrogated in that case... because I have much respect for this particular person (even when some others sometimes don't).) 4) Retain all written correspondence. (In this case.. and any other written materials. or make an ass of yourself.. This ultimately gets you nothing that couldn't have been achieved without risking an aneurysm. the phone call descended into a crescendo of conflict. "DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND. They're your best allies.com.simply irritate the other party into 7 . I've learned much from this individual. Blue) one bit of controversy.FCRA FCBA FDCPA and even the Truth in Lending Act (which is a superset of the FCBA and a few other civil rights) HIPPA those are the ones you should get to know if you can if reading law outright bores ya. Such documentation will likely become very helpful during your journey. Similarly. The consultant was SCREAMING AND YELLING. (I love it but I'm weird) then there's a wonderful other way to get it READ THE BOARDS these people make it so interesting "search" is good oops. I disagreed with the consultant's attitude.. yell. getting back to my suggestions 3) Embrace your community... that... embrace your friends on Creditboards. In every case..I was browsing the internet last week and listened to some recorded phone calls between a credit consultant and a few alleged creditors.through ethical but escalated requests for information to which you are entitled -. 5) Make notes as if you're headed to court. Regardless. (Ah yes. even though you probably aren't. 6) Don't scream. credit reports. Those six things will keep you in good stead. threaten."IF YOU DON'T PROVIDE VALIDATION. THEN I WON'T PAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!" the consultant wailed. YOU IDIOT!!!!!???????????" And on and on and ON AND ON AND ON... threatening letters can be shelved in favor of ones which -. I'm not going to tell you whose calls these were. Here's why. etc." "Sonofabitches aren't satisfied with the tradeline deletion." "Instead." I'd like to quote myself here. "Some people think that embracing a litigious mindset requires acting like a sonofabitch. I once wrote an essay on another discussion board which included this suggestion: "Don't be a sonofabitch.whatever those demands are. They don't scream at adversaries unless they want to be admonished by the judge. DON'T act like a sonofabitch. Whatever you do. They don't beg.. as strongly and as seriously as possible. (Can we say that on this board. They are matter-of-fact to a deadly degree." "Picture the stance most often drawn by lawyers in a courtroom. And you should state those demands politely.. They don't threaten. END CREDIT 101 8 . You don't want your adversary to believe that you are a "crank" who could NEVER be satisfied.submission. They simply state their case. Sonofabitches REQUIRE the tradeline deletion AND a monetary award of $10. you want your demands to be VERY clear right from the start -. Potential consequences should be stated politely as well. lol?) Nothing is farther from the truth.000 AND a formal apology AND admission of wrongdoing AND a brand new credit card AND self-mutilation. the first message. b} requests for information. dubzero.. Tonight's syllabus. I hope we'll all learn something new.. Credit repair involves INTERVENTIONS which invoke one of three TRUTHFUL communication tactics: a) polite requests..."Three Musts" for beginners -4-.Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-.the first three lessons (where credit repair is framed as an ETHICAL enterprise in opposition to the many UNETHICAL business practices which comprise the consumer credit industry). That transcript 9 .. there is a transcript for those newcomers here who would like to review that. -1-.... dub and rich.and the last five sessions (where we discuss the nitty-gritty of credit repair -.. I should mention that the 8 lessons are divided into two sections.Brief review of the last session -3-. Well.. Like last session..The laws we reference -5-..interventions which leverage your RIGHTS as a citizen).How to invent credit repair interventions Basically. enough about last session. just a quick note for those who weren't here before being polite doesn't necessarily mean being solicitous or kissing someone's behind essentially it means that a calm legal-based approach can be far more effective than a bunch of screaming and yelling someone who calmly demands that the other party comply with federal law is going to be far more of a threat than someone who thinks they're going to get great results by trying to intimidate the other side very true. 9/22/2005 PSYCHDOC'S CREDIT REPAIR SCHOOL FOR BEGINNERS For those who have just joined us.LESSON TWO TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview. but I especially hope that those who are new to their credit repair campaigns come away from these sessions with something that will contribute to their eventual success.. and c) legal demands.. For that reason. Actually.) The truth is far better than some newcomers might expect. Creditboards. this is my situation.com is frequented by a whole bunch of folks who want nothing more than to help somebody get through what they once got through. Then when it doesn't happen. Rather. people are already getting to know you. they would try to present themselves as knowing more than they actually did know because they thought that was the clear path to acceptance. I had seen plenty of newcomers." What I was trying to do with that is help people to understand that they would indeed be accepted even if they didn't know anything at all. you may not get an instant answer. and they may well be thinking about what you've posted. Just get in there and say. and since it's likely that many other beginners will read these transcripts later. it's a community. you've got to "keep coming back" as I once heard elsewhere. I'm new here." The Creditboards swimming pool is warm. this is really about attitude. After that. Some people introduce themselves. (I think that irritates everybody the most. feel free to do it without apology. and I want to learn and would appreciate anybody's help.can be found on the main credit repair board attached to a sticky message at the top. and then wait for the ambulance to come to take them away to the Credit Repair Emergency Room where the experts will do all their work for them. lol. Or. you simply must feel free to identify yourself as somebody who's seeking help! And. Since this is primarily a course for beginners. we never from them again. I once spent an awful lot of time in another credit-related community preaching the virtues of "BE WILLING TO BE A NEWBIE FOR AWHILE BEFORE PROCLAIMING YOUR EXPERTISE. so after you introduce yourself and state your problem. 2. Creditboards isn't an emergency room. Staying with the community and participating fully is 10 . continue interacting. time and again. "Hey. 1. for goodness sakes. You've not only got to be willing to learn. though. worse. You must participate. and always ask more questions. Rest assured. you've got to participate. I want to mention my "Three Musts" for beginners. either not post because they thought they didn't know enough to participate. You must be willing to learn. Or they didn't post because they were afraid that someone would think they're stupid. Even the old-timers are still learning. and many of the most successful among us have done just that.htm FDCPA: http://www. they're tough to read but if you can't make yourself read 'em as I said at least read ABOUT them as much as you can on the board here are a few links FCRA: http://www. and you will find yourself understanding more and more... who's read the FCBA (if you don't know what that is. frankly. For those who are interested in HIPAA (more later) regarding medical accounts Here's a great link http://www. Make a commitment to yourself to read the daylights out of this board for a brief period of time before you do anything else. and start reading. You 11 . Now. You'll definitely come across stuff that makes no sense to you at all.pdf That's a pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) I would encourage you to at least look over them look at the subsection titles and dip in it will help as we move forward through the course.gov/os/statutes/fcb/fcb.ftc. If you do that for a significant amount of time.com/ Very good stuff.com for one full week.ftc.hipaacomply. You must read more than this. ok.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.the key to your ultimate success. while we begin to talk about the legal basis for all of this it's bears mentioning for a moment that there are other tactics. 3. (Of course that wouldn't be a bad idea. Now. Just get in there. the material will begin to congeal. well.htm FCBA: http://www. But you've got to do it if you don't want to fail. get ready to at least READ ABOUT them.gov/os/statutes/fcra. Consider it your Master's Degree in Credit Repair. Homework is not fun. you should still feel free to ask even basic questions.).ftc. Just as a bit of discussion Who here has actually read the FCRA? wow lots of yeses. but keep reading anyway. But even when others think you're an old grizzled expert. Over the long haul. On the other hand. you'll probably find you're answering more questions than you're asking. I'm not necessarily suggesting that you venture onto the Internet right now and find the laws we'll mention tonight and read them fully. I'm keeping in mind that there will be newcomers reading the transcript of this in the future so. One way to do that is to spend at least an hour a day reading Creditboards. I'll detail that in a minute) FDCPA? FDCPA is one I would encourage you to read. which regulates debt collectors....The laws we most commonly reference are: The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA).. which regulates health providers. Here's a very very brief way to think about these. Ensures access to credit reports. but it forms the basis of most so-called "OC validation" interventions like the Nutcase Series and other good ones you'll see from time to time. which essentially tells original creditors how they should behave..." steer clear. and community standing..may have come across credit repair methods which are strictly illegal. to simply making up a Social Security number in accordance with some geographically-based insider information regarding the numbering scheme. Truly legal credit repair is a gradual process that takes time to complete. which is a subset of the more comprehensive Truth in Lending Act. and credit bureaus (officially "consumer reporting agencies" or "CRAs") to meet their goals. to acquiring an IRS Taxpayer Information Number (TIN). Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). These range from booklets and consultants who will advise you to do everything from identifying someone near your age who died as a child and attempting to establish credit in their name. Details how a CRA must handle disputes. The Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA). what is advocated here is putting Federal statutes to work in the service of improving your credit standing. which looks like a Social Security Number. And of course. I really like this second one (FCBA) It's not one we commonly use in this community. Here. More shortly.. Sometimes members of this community use those laws to actually file lawsuits against abusive original creditors ("OCs" for short). Needless to say.. As an aside. laws are chased and embraced -. Regulates who has "permissable purpose" to acquire a consumer's report Limits how long information can be reported. Anytime you see an advertisement for "NEW CREDIT FILE OVERNIGHT. In fact. The FCRA. collection agencies ("CAs"). all such methods risk loss of freedom. and establishing credit with that. the credit repair intervention commonly associated with this statute is of course the credit 12 . to you-name-it.rather than shunned and avoided. which basically tells the bureaus what they can and can't do.. income. The Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA). Who here has ever sent a validation letter? Great. We'll delve into the FCRA in more detail in the fifth lesson November 3 (CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting) FCBA: The FCBA requires creditors to bill correctly and completely. We'll cover the FCBA more fully in the sixth lesson November 17 (CREDIT 106: FCBA Street Fighting) FDCPA: What a goodie. failure to post payments and other credits. charges that list the wrong date or amount. for the life of the account. at least 20 days before the billing period ends." As you read the list of requirements the FCBA stipulates. Consider something like this: "In accordance with my Federal civil rights as stipulated by the Fair Credit Billing Act. you are obligated to comply with this lawful request for elaborated documentation for billing.. however creditors do not welcome the idea that they may have broken the law with your account even several years before. This constitutes a truthful request for information. or rescind these reports from every consumer reporting agency to which you have reported same.) The FTC summarizes the statute's prohibitions as follows: "unauthorized charges. charges for goods and services you didn't accept or weren't delivered as agreed. or call it chopped liver. and it's the FTC's job to make sure that the statute is universally applied. but a validation letter 13 . Call this example FCBA Nutcase.even better -invent your own creative approach using the statute. ok. failure to send bills to your current address -. in writing. and charges for which you ask for an explanation or written proof of purchase along with a claimed error or request for clarification. as well as a full accounting of where each bill was mailed. LOL. (But it can be your job to ask that your creditors comply as well.provided the creditor receives your change of address. so I may be telling you what you already know.. including charges and interest.bureau dispute. Keep in mind that the FCBA is actually intended to assist consumers with CURRENT charges in dispute. math errors." That's something that no original creditor wants to fool with. or -. they almost always seem to get spooked when asked for such information. Your expeditious handling of this matter is expected. such as returns. just think about the credit repair possibilities. And of course even though you WON'T accuse them of that (because perhaps they broke no laws). it may be flagged. that's fine but when 25. They cost less and pay more.. let's say that the FCRRRA requires 14 . Provides behavioral standards for acceptible third-party collections behavior.hopefully certified and sent with return-receipt requested) that the CA "cease and desist" from communicating with the debtor further. Again. Such procedures are termed debt validation (as so many here know) and are so POWERFUL that we'll devote an entire lesson to the matter on December 1 (CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting). it cuts even deeper than just using your own words (although I agree with that wholeheartedly). LOL. or even if more people begin to create unique ones. And let's further pretend that that law requires these things: First.is an FDCPA intervention a quick mind-map of the FDCPA. But I want to talk more here at the start about the PHILOSOPHY of creating interventions. Here's why when you use somebody else's intervention letter. Specifically details a consumer's right to request further information regarding an alleged debt. Most of that is interesting if you're way into it. You'll sometimes see the credit repair mavens. Second..e.. For the same reason that FCRA interventions (aka credit bureau disputes) and FCBA interventions (pestering OCs) work.. but the wonderful thing is that validation requests often just work... we'll all be better off collectively and it's pretty darned easy! well. (Before.. let's say that the FCRRRA stipulates that they must print their consumer credit reports with ink bought only from Cartier New York. by letter -.000 people use the same letter. Specifies that CAs must always include several legal caveats in their dealings with debtors..) Allows the debtor to formally request (i.. let's say that the FCRRRA says that CRAs must send thank you notes to creditors every time they report new information to them. argue about what constitutes true validation or which legal cases require what item. if you begin to create your own interventions. etc. Pretend for a moment that there was something called the FAIR CREDIT REPORT REQUIREMENT RAZZMATAZZ ACT (FCRRRA). They simply don't want to fool with your lawful request for information. CAs in particular would rather just move along to the next person who'll roll over.the titans. Finally. CAs would employ all kinds of shenanigans to mislead consumers regarding who they were. we'll get more into the detail of all of that in the FDCPA session. FCBA. When you approach the matter this way. the credit repair intervention would simply ask the other party to DOCUMENT THEIR COMPLIANCE with the law. the best way to create a unique credit repair intervention is to take a close look at the federal statute in question (whether that's FCRA. And if they don't comply with every bit of it. Sometimes companies don't want to take the time to address your lawful request in that manner.. and some of those sometimes simply delete the offending tradeline rather than fool with it (or you) anymore. A good credit repair intervention wouldn't directly accuse the recipient of malfeasance (unless you are sure that they ABSOLUTELY did commit the malfeasance). HIPAA. then they've broken the law. You're simply asking a company for information related to your account. please remove the item from my report immediately. and then ask the other party to show that they aren't behaving criminally.Dear Equifax: Pursuant to the Fair Credit Report requirement Razzmatazz Act. back to our silly fictional federal statute. Sincerely. Joe Consumer Essentially you're asking them to document their compliance. in this case. If such documentation cannot be provided. show that such information was printed with ink requisitioned from Cartier New York. FDCPA. They must comply with the whole act. If corporate citizens like Equifax or Citibank or NCO violate a statute. Moreover. So. or another state or federal law which you believe is relevant).credit bureaus to mail their reports to consumers only on Thursdays. In other words. please demonstrate that you sent the required thank you notes to Citibank every time they forwarded new information related to my account (number 12345). especially with respect to how that account has been reported to the credit bureaus. Finally. Now. it would look something like. and there are serious penalties for doing so. you aren't crafting lies. prove that you mailed the report in question to me on a Thursday. Rather. they've likely injured a real person. remember that citizens (including you and me as well as corporate citizens) can't pick and choose which parts of a statute deserve compliance. the original creditor interventions like the "Nutcase Series" (HEY ORIGINAL CREDITOR – PROVIDE 15 . So. This approach is the essence of the credit bureau dispute (HEY BUREAU -SHOW ME YOU'RE COMPLIANT WITH THE FCRA).. .... "TELL ME WHY YOU BEAT YOUR WIFE (OR HUSBAND). You know.SHOW ME THE HISTORY AND PROVENANCE OF THE DEBT PER THE FDCPA). and HIPAA interventions (HEY DOC -.SHOW ME YOU HANDLED MY ACCOUNT IN WAYS THAT PROTECT MY PRIVACY). This approach.continue to indulge the guru thing or just convince others that they are the gurus the second is best.) but you'll be in a fantastic position to help others... you'll probably collect a few discrepancies vis-a-vis some CRA's behavior. debt validation (HEY COLLECTOR -. I was looking over the transcript for the last lesson. LOL!) rich. requesting information basically. "wow... how do you think I ended up being a shrink? biggrin... lol... I have to UN-snow them" "I have to show them that there's no magic to this" I mean. Lawyers love discovery simply because of the nuisance factor. Asking for information is your right as a consumer.ALL THIS INFORMATION ABOUT MY ACCOUNT PURSUANT TO FCBA)... and if you're in this room and I see that even as we near the end of this lesson.. etc. Ok.. I hope this example illustrates the similarities among the real credit repair interventions we commonly use... or a CA. and I thought. your credit score..... the rates you're offered.) This is basically the core method for how these crazy credit repair interventions get started. is one that lawyers commonly use (what they sometimes term "discovery"). we have 37 people still here.e.essentially that it's about demanding compliance and demanding information then you'll not only be in a terrific position to radically increase your credit rating (i. I'll stay away from inventing anymore silly statutes because we've got too many real ones to discuss as we move forward. because I'm no guru (LKH will confirm that.. Still.. Lawyers don't say to their opponent during discovery anything like." And then they look for discrepancies. "GIVE AN ACCOUNTING OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP FROM THE BEGINNING UNTIL THE PRESENT. there's a choice point here for me... If you really do head toward court eventually with some matter.." Instead they'll say.. And that same principle works for you.gif Once you get the hang of this. Does any of this resonate with anybody? (Hope so. or an OC.. what nice people" and then I thought "wow. and I received some accolades for a couple of interventions I created.then you're probably VERY interested in the topic 16 . gif You are now just a nuisance. ok.. END CREDIT 102 17 . they're not required to delete. There's no harm in asking the court to verify their procedures for reporting to credit bureaus You may see some success..and will likely be among those people who'll help the NEXT group of beginners. and credit scores and we'll talk about how to improve your score EVEN WITHOUT these intervention letters then we'll get into the street fighting Court records are tough... certified letter. and that new credit repair interventions based upon law are developed well. this is a terrific community and those of us who care about helping others who've been through what we've been through (like you) want to make sure that it continues to grow.. see you in two weeks.. lol. Ask them to demonstrate that they abided by all laws. THE JOY OF PESTERING that's the key! Ok.. the court -. Don't be nervous. No.. Most people simply dispute and re-dispute with the CRAs until they're gone. YOU DON'T OWE ANY MORE MONEY. this strikes me as something that you should also post on the board about being worried re fooling with courts. that's it for this time.in this case. THE CASE WAS SETTLED biggrin..for information. You're not threatening anybody. Asking for information violates no laws. You're simply demanding some information. tougher than creditor tradelines. I hope something here was useful next time we'll delve into credit bureaus and credit reports .. You can ALWAYS ask your opponent -. Very interesting. Agreed or do it by letter. . in case you don't know who you are. and radi8.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-. Pam. will focus upon credit bureaus and credit scores. First... all of whom have poured a lot of care and sweat (and have endured heaping helpings of what we call in Yiddish "mishegoss" in return).Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-. and I would like to express my appreciation once again for their invitation. "mishegoss" is your word of the week. the third of eight. It's nice to see some new faces and some returning ones too. Their commitment to consumer advocacy is astounding. Like last session.QUICK ASIDE. And. Tonight's syllabus. except that I didn't want to set the wrong tone for this. and years. is made possible by its owners (you know who you are. Ok.. This site.. let me do something we couldn't have done before the internet: I'd like to welcome those who have discovered these transcripts in future weeks.. You are all now honorary Jewish people. I hope something here proves helpful as you approach your own credit repair.. But they have put up with a fair amount of mishegoss.. breeze.. I hope we'll all learn something new.. -1-.. credit repair isn't primarily about the credit 18 ..com.. LKH.Credit scores Tonight's session could easily have been the first one. I've interacted with each of them through the years. I'll endeavor not to be a meshugana tonight.LESSON THREE TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 103: Credit Reports & Credit Scores.Two credit bureau myths -5-. Ahem. Creditboards. LOL). Now I'll turn away from such comments with a much browner nose and focus upon our task here.. months.Approaches to debt -4-.just to benefit others. but I especially hope that those who are new to their credit repair campaigns come away from these sessions with something which may contribute to their eventual success. 10/6/2005 Tonight's seminar. and it's your right as a consumer to ensure that they follow through in that regard. I'd like to back up a bit from that.. and cut through to something more essential. Rather. More about that in a minute. Generally.even. and that has to do with DEBT. For those reasons. and they maintain consumer records on hundreds of millions of Americans. and others. the consumer advocacy site PlanetFeedback.com. Nobody wants to be reminded to floss after brushing. the Federal Trade Commission. Experian. Manipulating ones borrowing and repayment patterns is perhaps the quickest way to raising a credit score -. irrespective of what actually appears on the credit report. FCBA. For that 19 .. the credit bureaus maintain records (or. perhaps more accurately stated. It's their legal responsibility to maintain accurate records. We'll begin to talk about these ancillary intervention opportunities in a few weeks. this isn't what some folks want to hear. etc. though. I said it. health professionals. Rather. they're directed toward original creditors. it doesn't make much sense to conduct a credit repair course for beginners without at least wearing out the usual yawn-inducing introduction you see just about everywhere. Suffice to say. Even most court records that appear on such reports often have to do with debt. your GOALS regarding debt will dictate how you go about tackling what appears on those reports. which goes something like this: "There are three major consumer reporting agencies. Critically. Second. it's important to step back a bit from the credit repair task. and TransUnion. lol) regarding how you as a consumer have behaved when borrowing and repaying money. as they can interlace nicely with FCRA. especially at the beginning. LISTS OF UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS. it's about conducting ethical and lawful interventions in order to further your personal consumer credit goals --whatever they may be.) Still. Equifax. HOW YOU BORROW and HOW YOU REPAY debt are perhaps the two greatest influencers of credit scores. Moreover." Argh. in some cases. ("Others" may include the Better Business Bureau. debt collectors. so many credit repair interventions (and their co-curricular consumer protection statutes) aren't directed toward the credit bureaus at all.bureaus or about credit scores. and FDCPA based interventions. That's really what this is about. and take stock of one’s own approach to DEBT. this approach has a credit repair benefit: your credit scores will rise. I won't spend too much time on this. reducing debt -. for that matter) have little debt and lots of money. but I would be completely remiss if I didn't at least acknowledge the obvious: DEBT is what caused so many of our problems which necessitate credit repair in the first place.. Expanding these. 2) Eternal indebtedness. then reducing outstanding balances low should be an objective. let's assume that accumulating wealth (the first category) -.isyour financial goal. you'll be less susceptible to fiscal disaster if you have an emergency fund of real cash in case something unexpected happens. He discusses a widely advertised -. How will you do it? There are three general approaches: 1) Reducing debt as quickly as possible. Obviously. are you already thinking about that home theater system you can buy now? If so. Ok. so perhaps 5 or 10 minutes of this will be appreciated by someone out there at some point..and so. in other words.OR. and perhaps right back where you started. If becoming more financially stable is your goal. but here are two wide categories: 1) Wealth accumulation. 2) Do you regard a brand new credit card as INCOME? In other words.method for dealing with debt. It's a must read. Interestingly.reason.000 limit. when the shiny new MasterCard arrives with a $10. 20 . I would encourage anyone in the second category to at least begin to think about how they've embraced and accumulated debt. then you may find yourself overextended (and for most of us here. As an aside. 2) Reducing debt the least expensive way. 1) Is your long term goal to accumulate wealth? It almost goes without saying that the wealthiest people (and the wealthiest corporations.by a seemingly limitless number of companies -.. I really like an article which appears on Creditboards (LINK) called "The Problem with Debt Settlement Companies" written by radi8. I should add the word "AGAIN" -me included). There are many approaches to debt.. Most importantly. unable to repay everything in a timely manner. since it may well be that the larger debts are ones which involve maxed-out revolving credit lines (a score killer).The first approach – reducing debt as quickly as possible -. The second approach – reducing debt the least expensive way -. While all three of these are worthy objectives.. And by the way. they are very different. but she does offer an approach to debt reduction..in other words.) Dave Ramsey's debt snowball approach involves repaying the smallest debt first. a) Even if it's the most encouraging way to tackle debt (which is perhaps the most critical factor for some people). taking that payment and applying it to the next largest one. Now Suze doesn't know much about credit repair..is the approach favored by people like Suze Orman. That isn't my approach. then you may not be able to do it in ways that will maximize your scores.3) Reducing debt in a way that will maximize your credit scores. I recommend at least listening to what he has to say even if you (like me) aren't an anti-debt nut.So this is about making choices.. it's not the least expensive way since you're focusing on repaying the SMALLEST DEBT first -.... and so on until everything's paid for...and b) It's not the most efficient way to raise your credit score. then when that's taken care of.... then you may not be able to do it the least expensive way. This approach affords psychological advantages relatively quickly because it's encouraging to repay something entirely and then move to the next one in turn.. Likewise.. ahem... If your goal is to reduce debt as quickly as possible. But he represents a viewpoint. Plus he's entertaining....usually involves what Dave Ramsey and other authors have termed the "debt snowball" approach. ha. His is an extremely compelling argument. This is different from 21 . By the way. Hers involves prioritizing debt according to the actual cost of the money -. if you goal is either of the first two. does anybody here ever listen to Dave Ramsey? He's an anti-debt fanatic. The disadvantages of this first approach are. LOL yep. (With apologies to "nutty" here.. The advantage of this approach is obviously the cost savings. the interest rate – and paying off the most "expensive" debt first.and not the one with the highest interest rate. say.You've got a Chase MasterCard with a $10.. some people (me included) believe that this is the LARGEST factor in credit scoring 22 . the use of the term "utilization ratio" brings us squarely into the realm of credit bureaus and credit scores.. and then you'll qualify for more that will help further. Interestingly.. two very different approaches The third approach – reducing debt in ways that improve your credit score -.000. overall.. Does anybody now know what I mean by that? Just in case. $20. You've got to struggle to improve your rating (your reports. If you've spent..Let's say you have three revolving lines of credit..000 of it.. interestingly.Your utilization ratio is the amount you owe on a debt divided by that debt's line of credit. For those who are new to all of this information.And the overall credit available to you is. :) That's the irritating thing about credit. like the first "debt snowball" approach. let's say..involves equalizing balances so that no debt's "utilization ratio" (the amount owed divided by the overall line of credit) is high and then paying down the various debts equally so that all the ratios lower together.......LOWER UTILIZATION RATIOS = HIGHER CREDIT SCORES That's true whether we're considering an individual debt. So it all depends upon your goals once again..will give an example..000 line of credit And you've only spent $1. your score).. and then tackle cred's question example.. Keep in mind this heuristic. That an example of a tradeline-specific utilization ratio. but You apply for revolving credit and keep a low balance. Any consideration of improving your credit scores will ALWAYS factor in HOW your borrow and repay your debt... but doesn't afford the psychological advantage of Dave Ramsey's "debt snowball" nor the cost savings of Orman's approach... $5. DTI (debt to income ratio) doesn't really matter much unless you're buying a house no problem I'll give an example. That card has a 10% utilization ratio..000 of that then what's your overall utilization ratio? (simple math) Credit scores take into consideration BOTH types of utilization ratios... Now. SO. this approach can result in DRAMATIC differences to a credit score... Also.. Again....the first obviously.and it's true when we're considering all debt. By the way. The disadvantage is that you can easily feel like less progress is being made especially if the most expensive debts are also your largest ones.. the focus isn't on your credit score. . That's why the most common advice you'll hear is.. then. and can hurt IF there's an outstanding balance..Which federal law establishes the credit bureaus as official quasi-governmental entities? MYTH 1: Credit bureaus are officially recognized entities. in order to regulate what they CAN'T do. WRONG.e. so long as we've established what we're really talking about here -. Incidentally.. CLOSED ACCOUNTS don't help. but all things being equal.) A credit report doesn't even enjoy the official legal status of.. that these unofficial credit reports sometimes impact our lives far more than most any official document which exists... let me ask a trick question. So life wasn't rosy for everyone. at best. LOL..but also with regard to your CREDIT SCORE which DOES interest everyone here I think.. not only in terms of fiscal health. that's the way the lending industry has evolved... that's WHY the Fair Credit ReportingAct became law in the early 1970s.. ha) but it's a necessary topic.. Unfortunately. whether he thought women were creditworthy. Well. In the old days.. It is unfortunate.) Debt is never a fun topic when raised in a milieu of people who love credit cards (like me.. And she's right. Who you probably went to church with. Credit bureaus are private companies (at least one is publicly traded. And he (and in those days. for example.. say. or racial prejudice. like in our grandparents' time. But that wasn't the primary consideration. except for bankruptcy related items which are required to remain for 10 23 . it was always a he) he knew you. other considerations that AREN'T helpful intruded. DEBT -. etc. Ok.. "Don't start closing accounts willy-nilly.. By the way. but it's still owned by its shareholders) which are in the business of buying and selling financial gossip about you.. Like.i.. There were credit bureaus. a banker's social preconceptions. your driving record maintained at your local statehouse.. (More about that two sessions from now. that's the stated rationale for credit scoring as well. OPEN accounts contribute to the score." Even the erudite Suze Orman says so.(aside from having a bunch of negatives. First..... and that's all a credit report is. On to myth two MYTH 2: Items on your credit report are required to remain for 7 years (in most states). a list of unproven allegations. LOL. And what's gossip? Gossip is.let's turn to busting two common credit bureau myths. You'd go visit the banker. there's nothing we can do because those things are supposed to stay on your report for seven years. They DON'T tell us something else. LOL. myth.. Miss Jones. Confronting what appears on your credit reports. though. It doesn't MANDATE reporting though! This is one of the most insidious lies related to credit reports which we have embraced as a society for whatever reason.. is simply your way of saying: "Hey. That's what Fair Isaac Corporation (the FICO company) wants us to know.their business is safeguarded. someone should bring a class action lawsuit against any consumer reporting agency that says something like: "Negative items must remain on your credit report for 7 years in your state." you should know that-. That may be a company's policy and the credit bureau's policy.. Of course.years.Here's what you see everywhere.. When you speak with the nice customer service person at Sears.their niceness notwithstanding -.. Which brings us to credit scoring. 30% to current account usage (how much of your credit is being used. that private companies must buy and sell information about you to others... but it's not the law. 10% to new credit inquiries and accounts (with fewer being better)." Keep these two myths in mind as you go about the task of confronting what appears on your credit reports. the most favorable credit rates are typically extended to those with scores of 720 or above. LOL.you're either speaking to someone who is terribly misinformed (at best) or someone who is deliberately lying to you (at worst). legal or otherwise. In real life. "Oh I'm sorry. WRONG. The FCRA simply places LIMITS upon what can be reported... and 10% to the "credit mix" or variety of credit types present. Scores range from 350 to 850." That is an oft-told lie. and I can't wait for someone to challenge that kind of misleading information. with greater amounts being negative) which is the "utilization ratio" we discussed before. especially if done using ethical means. 15% to length of credit history (the longer the better). as long as we sheep believe.and it bears repeating for those who are new to the material. There is no requirement. I don't appreciate corporate titans who choose to violate my privacy. and they say something like.. And 24 . with the mean value score being right at 725.35% of your score is influenced by account history (how timely you've paid). " Now. i. those people are in the majority. I'm a statistics wonk.. LOL.In any grouping like that. Fair Isaac stays on top of the variables du jour which may diagnose bad future news. Through that continuous process.. Ok....QUOTING MYSELF from another venue: "Your credit score isn't just about you.is that basically a credit score indicates the PROBABILITY that a consumer will Credit scores are about helping lenders PREDICT who will default.To quote myself one last time:"So does this sound kosher? Are prediction and speculation and comparisons with other consumers fair items to include in a credit report alongside the stuff that otherwise really is about a single consumer? undoubtedly." This is why someone needs to challenge the legitimacy of the credit reporting and scoring industry generally. If it was. Then.. But what that boils down to (for those who hate stats).e. Fair Isaac makes use of what they call "Score Cards. the judiciary will eventually decide. it's about you and others. People often ask things like. even among those who have relatively low credit scores.. The final step happens when your credit report is pulled and is analyzed through the use of those comparative algorithms. It's all about helping banks determine who is in the group of people who may not repay them........ and it's this. The problem is.... Rather. providing it along with the rest of your credit report might not violate federal law. There are the false positives...perhaps someone in this room will one day sue their pants off. those people who will NEVER default. So. And.. I don't believe that they are honorable enterprises.. and a credit score is then reported which purports to predict the possibility that you are the type of person who may one day become seriously delinquent.. to cled's question. More specifically. Try not to confuse the credit score number with what I was talking about when I mentioned "utilization ratio" The actual FICO score is just an INDEX OF PROBABLE DEFAULT That's not to say you didn't ask a great question.. we all pay for the mistakes of the few.." which groups consumers according to whatever criteria they choose.. interestingly. how many points will an inquiry take 25 . which stipulates that your consumer file must only (and obviously) be about you."If I apply for credit. they run what we statisticians call Pearson correlations between credit report items and subsequent late-pays for each consumer grouping. LOL. it's about comparing you to others. 3) Stop taking advantage of installment loans (other than a mortgage and car payment) 4) Don't close accounts. "keep it below 30%... But a good rule of thumb here at the beginning is.. I mean open revolving lines.) The truth is this.You'll apply for a super premium MBNA card and close your Capital One card.. Some people say that an ideal utilization ratio is 10%.." I think everyone agrees that anything above 50% is hellish on a credit score. Don't start closing accounts here.off. People who apply for LOTS of credit are among that statistical grouping of people who are MORE likely to default. Similarly.. The real answer is this. And when it doubt. And. 2) Pay down revolving credit. And I (and some lawyers I've spoken with) believe that when a credit bureau includes a credit score.. Now. they may be breaking the law. but do so using ethical means. and the credit score essentially does that. yes. there... then you'll tweak things. Others say 5%. the more you resemble that group of probable defaulters.. Ok.... etc. (R9 is Equifax's designation for a chargedoff or collection revolving account. What follows is conventional wisdom you'll see elsewhere." Now.People with LOW utilization scream "responsibility" to them. people who have 60 day lates STATISTICALLY RESEMBLE probable defaulters MORE than say those people who have only 30 day lates (or no lates) Again. Consumer credit reports cannot include information about other consumers. Still others say. but I agree with it wholly. 1) Eliminate negatives. so.. But that's for tomorrow's litigation..) . But there I go talking about flossing again. When you become more comfortable with your GOOD credit (after your credit repair succeeds)..) Well. people who have defaulted in the past are statistically MORE LIKELY to default again than people who never have. even though the answer to that is usually "2 or 3 or 4" LOL... the presence of R9's are poison... post to the boards here and get 26 .. and everywhere..So the more inquiries you have. (I shouldn't fall victim to answering. A few words about raising your credit score. (Not to mention that it's hellish on your fiscal health. LOL)... That's advice for beginners... ..Now don't just go and dispute something like that off just because. I hope something here was useful for somebody tonight! :) LOL! student loans are ok when you need them.advice. If it's about other things (ref. interestingly.. then definitely pay down your revolving credit.. in accordance with my federal rights... earlier paragraphs) then pay the student loans. those student loans will depress a score." You can still ask the bureau to demonstrate that. Then we'll delve more deeply into the down-and-dirty credit repair tactics we love the most.. makes it tougher to get new credit. that's it for tonight! In two weeks. Flagged = noted as being an identity theft victim. for sure. Inquiries that DON'T have an attached active tradeline are termed "orphaned inquiries" by some attorneys I associate with.. they may be your only positive items! In which case. but interestingly... END CREDIT 103 27 . Doesn't that suck? How do I know? I've seen it myself.. and devising your best game plan. But. Now......"Please demonstrate that this inquiry was included on my report as a result of the company's permissible purpose..once again it's about your goals (reference the section of tonight's session regarding the three types of debt repayment) If your goal is to improve your scores..... which is. I would never advise people to lie..they'll add more than they take away. and those are much easier to remove. That's true of almost all credit repair interventions though. Credit scoring is a dance. triaging it. Well. inquiries are tough period as you know.Still. One risks having the report (and the account) flagged. we'll discuss some overall strategies for taking a credit report. There's no harm in using the approach we discussed in the first two sessions. It will be much tougher to remove. . Was anybody here (who's already begun their credit repair program) ever intimidated by the task when they first got started? Well I felt the same way at one point.Credit repair rules of thumb -5-. here's Merriam-Webster's Stepford Person pronouncing the word for all of us. I know. -1-. As an aside. lol Actually I borrowed my definition this afternoon from Wikipedia so there I feel like a giant cane is about to enter stage left and pull me away now :) Simply having a plan for what must otherwise be terrifying circumstances helps first responders cope..Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-. 2) those with serious injuries who aren't life-endangered.YOU are your guru Each session builds upon the previous ones.. the term "triage" is borrowed from war battlefields where medical personnel deal with groups of injured soldiers.The purpose of "triage" -4-. knowing that there is an organized way to proceed (with any endeavor) helps one get past the fear of starting any sizable task. Now on to "credit report triage". you gotta love the internet. For those who enjoy sound effects.. Sometimes credit report issues are so plentiful that it's easy to feel 28 .LESSON FOUR TRANSCRIPT Tonight's syllabus... that was so pedantic of me I can't help it.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-. the wounded are divided into three groups (hence "triage") -1) the most seriously injured who require immediate attention in order to prevent death. Similarly.. Anyway.. 3) the walking wounded who will still require first aid but who can assist the EMTs with the other two groups but we'll pretend nothing's "dead"on a credit report.com/dze2z I know. Link: http://tinyurl. Generally speaking. as you know. (And if not the devil. And. you're about to take a nasty red marker and mark them up as if they're a graffiti wall somewhere. here's "PsychDoc's Plan of Attack" (licensed to you only for your own individual personal use under the "GNU General Public License" but not for use in any commercial setting). For those who haven't begun. by the way. or anything of that sort. or the "right" way.. but that's still a good idea. 29 .like one is about to fight a war (of sorts). don't cheat. I realize that eventuality is unlikely. just in case you ever need them as evidence in a court proceeding. Keep a set of "clean" originals in a file somewhere.) STEP ONE: Keeping our second session in mind (CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview). So. As for the COPIES... PRELIMINARY STEP: Go to Kinko's (or your office copy machine. :) Let me emphasize before I delve in. though.. comb through your reports and look for those tradelines (credit industry jargon meaning "an item on your report") where you were never more than 30 days late. there's a systematic approach for each.. then at least the work product of corporate drones who probably care less about your personal welfare.. or the "only sensible" way. whether it's gossipy bureaus. or wherever) and make COPIES of your latest credit reports. I don't want to represent this as the "correct" way. My goals in adopting the metaphor are threefold: 1) Impress upon you my belief (shared by many in this community) that practically no bad credit rating is beyond repair.. 2) Empower you to approach each of your three credit reports with optimism and a sense of fun as you delineate your plan of attack. or petty creditors.. I'll proceed. Those reports are the work of the devil. or ruthless and unethical debt collectors. though. 3) Provide some concrete rules of thumb for matching tradelines with appropriate credit repair interventions.. that this is simply my approach.. That said... Spare no mercy. First. you're going to assess each item on your report and assign it an appropriate credit repair intervention. that may help with this task. I digress. Those of us who appreciate 12 Step Programs are welcome to say the Serenity Prayer now.."quattrage" or even "pentage" or "sextage" (because. Mark those as "FCBA OR NUTCASE.. This time you're hunting for any tradeline whose worst notations are 60 days late. By the way. Meanwhile.) And. but those of us who advocate differently are right too. alas. Perhaps we'll have to coin a new word. (Although.) STEP FOUR: Next look for items that have entered collection or charge-off status. Equifax includes their handy "R9" or "I9" designations. Kindly sit with the tension for a moment. if you're completely new to all of this. groups of us have been debating this for years. no tradeline has received more than one mark. actually. Ok. there's going to be fourth. then don't worry what that means right now. you're going to make a second pass through your reports. If the tradeline was placed there by a third-party debt collector (in other words by "XYZ Collection Company" as opposed to "MBNA"). NO. That may change with this step. cough.) STEP FIVE: Up to now. (Suffice to say. that may help too. ok. but. "sextage" doesn't guarantee any additional fun when you're through. technically we're going past "triage" now. you're going to label those items whose worst notations are 90 to 150 days late and which NEVER entered collection or charge-off status. By the way. then mark those tradelines with the phrase "VALIDATION. They're right.. :) STEP TWO: Now. Cough." Don't worry about the wizened souls who proclaim that there's no such thing as "OC VALIDATION" at this point. on the next pass. and I'll get back to it in a few minutes. fifth. consumers are netting credit report deletions. which will help make short work of this task with that bureau's reports." More in a few minutes about that. ahem).. You're triaging. mark it "OC VALIDATION. YES. (Actually." If the chargeoff was put there by an original creditor. STEP THREE: Now. and sixth steps. irrespective of the technicalities. you're going to write the word "GOODWILL" next to each of those tradelines. but now I'm way off topic. Just do it. For these you'll mark "GOODWILL OR FCBA.we're NOT going to include anything with 60 day lates or work during this pass." More about what that is in a few minutes also... Now. ok. Mark it VALIDATION if a CA and OC VALIDATION if an 30 . I have a philosophy about credit repair interventions.... reworked it for those tradelines with minor late pays which had never charged-off.. mark this one with the acronym "HIPAA." That sounds like something a chiropractor would do.. This is where you need to do your homework – search the board for the basic template. a hospital." "FCBA OR NUTCASE" or "VALIDATION... Has anybody ever had success with the Goodwill letter? I realize most in here are new.. or someone collecting money for any of those. and let's say that a Goodwill approach will work 5 or 10 percent of the time and let's say that a Nutcase approach will work 5 or 10 percent of the time FCBA same FDCPA validation same. persistence and a 31 .. a judgment.. with plenty of flexibility. this one does work some of the time. a testing lab. some no's. Go back and mark those COURTHOUSE. The "Goodwill Letter" saw its origins in a letter penned by "marci" (an occasional participant on these boards) which she called her "Sample Nice Letter for Paid Chargeoffs.. etc. and then you try again.. and dubbed it the "Goodwill Letter" after a rep for Sears National Bank told me by phone that they had an internal phrase for certain nice people who begged forgiveness --the "Goodwill Adjustment. If the item was placed there by a doctor." Now you have the rough outlines of a plan. some yes's Let me diverge from the prepared remarks for a minute. and while nothing works all the time..." I borrowed marci's letter (lifting a couple of her brilliant key phrases).... :) Regardless." "GOODWILL OR FCBA.OC to Step 5. a bankruptcy notation. etc. Let's say that a credit bureau dispute will work 5 or 10 percent of the time or even 20 percent.." Note again that you may be writing "HIPAA" next to something which was already labeled "GOODWILL.. the approach is tried-and-true.. The philosophy is this..a lien." a tradeline may have more than one notation STEP SIX: Anything left is probably there as the result of some legal action -.. Each of those notations reflects a particular credit repair procedure. This step requires you to work through your reports and locate any MEDICAL tradelines. Your "GOODWILL" tradelines are due a Goodwill Letter.somewhere down the line you're going to clean it up. or the other. has anybody seen success by trying the Nutcase series yet? Let me say something about "required"...variety of approaches is key I just hate it when I see somebody really punishing themselves after they try an intervention and it doesn't work. the Nutcase approach can be summed up as a polite but escalated set of information requests.. Your questions likely compel the other side to wonder what you plan to do next. You'll sometimes see one of us old fools say something like. :) Ok... The "Nutcase Series" enjoys a good number of testimonials. but here it is anyway in a nutshell Essentially... IT DIDN'T WORK I'M DOOMED It's just horrible because you know how they feel." "Three times along the seam... which is terrible but if they kept in mind that each intervention has a chance of working and that interventions can be REPEATED and in some cases. and a template and accompanying rationale can be found on the board Again. are HUGE.. You approach it as quickly as possible. Sometimes there is a reason for that. Maybe the oldtimer wants you to NOT look like a credit repair organization. or do both (space them apart awhile). creditors would rather just go ahead and delete a severe late mark than risk (or waste their time) tangling with you any further.. Those tradelines marked "FCBA or NUTCASE" also present a choice. I should put that in all caps: BE ENCOURAGED. As an aside... They despair. nothing works all the time.. for those tradelines marked "GOODWILL OR FCBA" you have a choice. You might try one or the other. OH NO. so buck up and move forward! The following sentences should not substitute for your doing just a few minutes of homework and reading the rationale here on the boards. but taking NO action ensures failure.. lemme tell 32 . some tradelines can call for multiple interventions per the triage approach I just outlined above Your chances of succeeding during the next year or so." "Then fold it twice.... Try one. Will you sue? Are you a "litigious nutcase"? Sometimes. Or you might try one and THEN the other." And on and on and on. Refer to the second session for commentary regarding the FCBA approach.. and customize your own. Well.. Be encouraged.." "Then address the envelope in purple ink.. "Address it in a red pen. as with most areas of interest. here on Creditboards. Also remember that the larger the amount of an alleged outstanding debt. I've seen plenty of people net credit report deletions by sending the STOCK validation letter to original creditors. Again. One possible semantic solution I've recommended. but I have enjoyed watching consumers win their credit repair battles..e. there are in credit repair. Has anybody succeeded with Validation? Now." Incidentally.) You'll find a template for the letter... almost only. it's true. original creditors verify and don't validate That said. So. seek legal counsel. those tradelines marked "VALIDATION" should receive a formal request for validation pursuant to the FDCPA. the greater the risk that you'll "awaken the giant" (search the board for that phrase). If in doubt. I would advise that you spend some time (a few hours) reading about validation before you fire these off. Whichever position appeals to you. (Again reference the transcript for seminar #2.ya what I know about CROs. Plus. In credit repair... So technically. Quick point of discussion. irrespective of whether or not the OC was actually required to do anything at all.. topics which are controversial where perfectly smart and right people see things differently. they break out the purple pens sometimes so I'm really at the point where I hesitate to get so specific. substitute the word "verify" for "validate" and substitute references to the "FDCPA" with references to the "FCBA" and fire them off... in this regard. Take a validation letter. Next. you'll find people on the boards debating who "verifies" versus who "validates" and similar arcana. I personally have never enjoyed the verify/validate wars.. technically. as well as its sequential successor termed by some the "Estoppel" letter. or at least ask for the advice of fellow travelers on the board. "original creditor validation").. one such area involves the notion of "OC VALIDATION" (i. and arguments about words notwithstanding. heapings of respect should be accorded those who maintain that there is no such thing as "original creditor validation. you should know that sending a stock validation letter to an original creditor does 33 . The FDCPA only (well. but we'll not get into more advanced and arcane debates in this beginner session) regulates third-party debt collectors.. you'll find no end of discussion and debate regarding such interventions. I especially appreciate all of WhyChat's comments and advise regarding how to use this statute. a bureau dispute may have done the job.. Clouds. Now go pay the people to whom we sold the debt. never misrepresent your situation when sending letters to anyone for any purpose." What they can't do is slap the cuffs on you for daring to ask for information about the alleged debt. by that time. one sent to the bureaus. but there's no way around it. Second. and one sent 34 . speaking as a shrink. Finally.. At least you've marked your credit reports for those tradelines which may be appropriate for one of these approaches. My goal tonight: at least beginners who read this will perhaps now better understand what the argument is about generally when they come across it here or elsewhere. Of course. So.) Search the board for the term "HIPAA". again. The debates almost get political. no medical provider wants to entertain the possibility that their credit bureau report has violated your federal privacy rights. perhaps the OC will write you back and say.. LOL! Now... It's all about persistence. and it might work. and this is not legal advice. I don't want to suggest that every medical tradeline is necessarily appropriate for a HIPAA-based credit repair intervention. for example. Now. but the boards contain many relevant discussions worth exploring. so. A number of approaches have been detailed regarding courthouse notations. A detailed discussion of these would absolutely extend well beyond the parameters of a beginner's seminar..not abridge your rights as a consumer in any way. "The FDCPA does not pertain to us. and I'll dare not make a claim regarding "what's best" because many well-informed people I respect disagree with each other. on to HIPAA This requires more homework. That means that essentially every item on your reports will be matched with at least two interventions.. In a nutshell. (Sorry. That simple but lovely concept defines the approach. do some research on the board before proceeding in this regard. Thank you. every single item on a credit report merits FCRA verification by requesting same from a credit bureau. if you send the "wrong" letter.. :) The irony is that you could try that same intervention in 4 or 5 months. I can confirm your hypothesis. QUICK CROA DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney. FCBA (OC-directed). You really are your own guru.. See you in two weeks.... let me move to the last section of tonight's syllabus which is really just a simple reminder.. philosophy. :) on to life get those markers! END CREDIT 104 35 . Perhaps there is a right answer. well.. :) I hope this helps somebody at some point! Thank you too. the more you know. she can still ask the OC to document that they have crossed every t and dotted every i you can pester a paid OC like crazy without lying until they are just sick of you One thing I like to say to folks. And with that. NO LAW LIMITS YOUR NUISANCE (Unless you get violent or threatening. lol) So have at them. Such discussions will also include at certain points what some term "the one-two punch"... Breeze hit it on the nose. and FDCPA (CA-directed) approaches in more detail. but don't wait for that. Ultimately. I hope somebody new here feels MORE EMPOWERED to dig into their reports in a SYSTEMATIC WAY.. Delve into the boards now and wear out that SEARCH button! :) tell me. approaches. it's time to end. the better you'll be able to decide how YOU feel about any number of controversial issues.. or perhaps every wizened old-timer has a piece of the truth... Or at least I hope you eventually will be..... the more you'll find yourself entering into the many excellent debates regarding law. We'll also excerpt actual letters in the next few sessions. and even attitude. well. and then do some co-curricular RESEARCH on the boards to learn more about the various interventions you've designated..to whoever placed the item on the reports. we'll detail FCRA (bureau-directed). Now. Finally. I'll look forward to seeing you in two weeks when we talk more about FCRA interventions you can employ with the bureaus. Stay tuned. Eventually they'll wonder if it's worth it to report that 60 day late tradeline.. In the next three sessions. an approach which leverages both bureau-directed and creditor-directed interventions in tandem in order to effect a particular result. on that note. The more educated you become to credit repair. -1-. for the next four sessions I'd like to recognize those hard-working (and heretofore thankless) Creditboards Forum Leads and Mods.About disputing -5-. but I don't. MarvBear... I'll correct that on the transcript. TeeSharice. there are entire multi-day seminars devoted to the topic. Lawyers pursuing CEUs attend those. LOL!) Tonight's syllabus. In the second session we began to describe the various components that comprise the FCRA.Types of disputes -6-..FCRA overview -4-. HDAlex..Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-. CEU = continuing education unit.. LOL! For the first four sessions.or include somebody who'd rather not be included anymore?.the credit bureau dispute.About inquiries -7-. but I'm going to do something different for the second four sessions.LESSON FIVE TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting. Now.... We obviously can only skim the surface. Can we have a rousing round of applause for (in alphabetical order) cotterpin.. fla-tan. In most states. lawyers and other professionals have to engage in a certain number of hours of continuing education in order to 36 . Tonight I'm going to thank the owners of other sites for all they do... Actually.. 11/3/2005 Tonight we examine what is obviously a very important component of anybody's credit repair campaign -. Lots of people believe that. But what I'd like to do is highlight those things that may be of particular interest (AND HELP) to you.Expectations Well.. on that note we'll dive into tonight's material.. I'll mention why in a minute for those who are mystified by that.. If yes. rigirl.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-. I didn't want to give the wrong impression that credit repair was mostly about credit bureau disputes. CramItCCCAs.. and TxQuiltGirl? (Did I leave anybody out??? . I mentioned the Creditboards site owners for all they do to keep this site up and running. And the good old Retail Credit Company would include stuff like that on your credit report. Georgia. The Fair Credit Reporting Act of 1971 .retain their licenses to practice. Retail Credit grew and became the primary bureau in the southeast.. another one. Equifax..... Oh. credit bureaus engaged in some very questionable activities. That was the old Atlanta credit bureau. became TransUnion and gobbled up every other bureau in sight. Did it seem upstanding? Did anybody smell of alcohol? What color was the family? (I kid you not. There were no restrictions upon WHO could actually pay the credit bureau to see your information. before that time. And the Retail Credit Company changed its name.. The Civil Rights Act in particular erased some of that. By the late 1960s there was an uproar. CBK in Knoxville. Before that time.. coupons. other large bureaus consolidated...Was there a man in the house? (Families not headed by a male were considered by some bankers to be less creditworthy and more risky.) This kind of data was then transmitted back to headquarters. Nobody crowned these companies with an 37 . Does anybody remember the Welcome Wagon ladies (and they were almost always women)? Well. but some of the abuses continued. accorded all of us some basic rights regarding what credit bureaus said about us.. etc. For example. For the first time.. info..... It was a nice break from the abusive past. you'd move into a neighborhood and a couple of very friendly women would come to the door with a little basket of goodies. In 1971 the FCRA took effect.. The Credit Bureau of Cook County. Some do. They would then make careful notes about the family. and welcome you to the fair city. consumers are able to actually take a look at their credit reports! Believe it or not. TN was bought by Equifax In other parts of the country.) Some of the abuses were essentially erased by the civil rights legislation of the 1960s. The smaller bureaus like that.. and Congress finally passed the FCRA in order to help all of us. For example. Similarly two other large regional bureaus combined to create Experian. And so on.. ordinary folks couldn't even take a look. some don't....... and they had a snugly relationship with Welcome Wagon.The old Chicago bureau.. The company that became Equifax began life as the "Retail Credit Company" in Atlanta.. but I'm not sure I don't either) Disputes from those of us who've opted-out may be easier to accept.... after all. Ok....even gives us all the right to free reports from each bureau once a year.. If your name is Robert Sheldon Poole. (and I'm not sure I subscribe to this. and therefore what appears on our reports just doesn't matter as much. than from those whose reports are juicier. 1) Ensures access to credit reports. so.. I know some people here must have wondered. 2) Regulates who has "permissable purpose" to acquire a consumer's report. (In other words...... those may be reasons. LOL! Well. enough history....S.." Etc... BUT Some folks I respect here believe that mightily and seem to have anecdotal evidence in support of that belief.official tag. those of us whose reports are in OPT-OUT status are less valuable.. TRW was one of the two companies that became Experian.) and 2) Dispute multiple names and addresses that may appear on your report. So you pick one and dispute the others. Typically.. 1) Opt-out. Poole on the reports as well as Bob Poole and a half dozen others. you may have R. You'll see old-timers give some initial advice to consumers BEFORE they start disputing with credit bureaus. LOL.. let the bureaus know you aren't open to promotional advertisements and offers.. 38 . gives YOU certain rights about who puts inquiries on your reports) 3) Limits how long information can be reported. (generally 7 years for regular tradelines and 10 years for bankruptcy-related ones) 4) Details how a CRA must handle disputes (more about that in a second) And the recent amendment to the FCRA.. FACTA. that's the reason.. The FCRA. Again. "Why in the hades are they suggesting I opt-out all the time.. I don't know if that's just a bunch of crap or not. Now. But some people believe this.. does anybody know what the rationale is for OPTING-OUT (other than offers can be a nuisance)? Well. (in other words... Since the bureaus are engaged in the business of buying and selling information about us.. lol?" "I like junk mail. Sometimes the easiest thing to do is just call 'em if it's just the addresses. should I do the credit bureau disputes first? Or the OC/CA interventions first? If it was me. and frankly.. The fewer bits on the report.They may report back "previously verified.. and I want to emphasize that this is BY NO MEANS the "right" answer. Once you do a dispute with a bureau and they "verify.. I'm not going to take a side. LOL!) Rather.(Not because I'm afraid to take sides. Again.. They don't see it as critical information that must be retained. account. etc. Validation.. Some ask." the bureau may not entertain another dispute for awhile.. 39 . That's a three-fer! There are quite a few... Other intervetions.. write 'em. whether it was a minor late pay or a major one.. When a credit removes an item... Remember that when you're disputing addresses. Anybody who's new to this series of seminars is referred to the transcript for Session 4. some folks believe that the automated systems in place verify one data point or another. If I was pressed. Some folks swear by the advice... etc. whether it ever charged off or not.. PERHAPS the hard to verify..... first. But if you do your work with your creditors / CAs / etc. Nutcase. etc. Goodwill. So.. Probably the one thing you'll learn here on Creditboards is that what most credit repair books say about the topic is VERY short-sighted.. Ok. you're not contesting information about account payment history..good enough.... More about disputing. Now on to About addresses.. Anybody know the credit repair rationale for disputing multiple names and addresses? Actually yes.. About the second reason. Before we move onto the types of disputes. I would begin with the creditors.. Disputing is not the end-all be-all of credit repair. I would say. Now.. Very smart people on both sides of the discussion sometimes debate this. Call 'em.." You may have to wait 6-12 months before they give it another go. FCBA. It seems reasonable..... I'm just not sure. Credit bureau disputes are simply ONE intervention we use. But we don't know for sure. Go ahead and opt-out and then dispute the extra names and ALL your previous addresses.. Just do it.. Now. Get an uncooperative phone rep this week? Call 'em again next week. extra names and addresses are probably the easiest thing to remove. it's gone from all three bureaus in one swipe. send a smoke signal. and you select them based upon the type of tradeline. Keep in mind. either way. . there is the disputing clock that begins when you send one to the bureaus. Zowie.. in accordance with my 40 . So there are several clocks. 1) There are several different "clocks". we'll send UDF forms to the bureaus and remove your late pays.. I would recommend that you search the board regarding "SOL" or "statute of limitations" for that... too much material tonight.. More in Lesson 8... . The best low-hanging fruit is when Sears says..... #7 LOL! Now.. ok.. About the comment "low-hanging fruit". Just getting my bearings....then you may clean stuff up before wrestling with the bureau personnel..) "Please demonstrate that the following tradeline(s) appears correctly on my report. I mentioned the importance of honesty. And that's a WHAM-three-gone. Just no rhyme or reason sometimes. let me tackle a few VERY good questions. Otherwise. and those appear in red italic type. About the TYPES of disputes. (Several NON-LYING credit bureau intervention examples follow.... refusing to investigate again at all 2) Another "clock" is the one that has to do with validation.. and there is a clock regarding their response time more about that in Lesson 7. They are supposed to investigate within what the statute terms a "reasonable period" held by case law to be 30 days typically although no judge will toss the book at them for 45 or even 60 days if they end up doing the job ignoring you is another story.. Had recommended that you intervene with the creditors first.... We'll tackle those topics in the FDCPA session..... Keep careful notes in case you ever take 'em to court... what the heck.. Sometimes consumers confuse them.. remove.. that sounds like a question related to debts that are allegedly outstanding. and that you could send disputes that essentially said something like this. We'll talk more about that in lesson 7 3) Another "clock" is that statute of limitations for debts.. Remember that what's low-hanging with one bureau may be your toughest on another. I casually mentioned one type of dispute in the very first session. or as tal said previously. Those who have just joined this series are referred to Lecture #1.. And I'll describe some of those others tonight.. Sometimes I've seen folks who do nothing more than CRA disputes finally get something deleted on the fourth or fifth try.. "I'm so confused by what appears here... that skates close to the edge. Along that line: "Dear bureau: Have you read the statistics regarding what percentage of reports include errors? This is a huge problem in our society. I read a few threads where people embraced that quickly. we advise a variety of approaches.Let me throw out a variety of TRUTHFUL techniques for dealing with the lovely CRAs. of course.. Here's another technique that does NOT require prevarication. "I don't understand why this appears on my report" I love that one." That's the preachy approach. in which case. Others mentioned that it didn't work for them. Keep it up. It makes absolutely no sense to me..federally protected civil rights..." You aren't making any claim of "not mine" or "never late" (which would be lies unless..) But I fear that they may have embraced that single technique to the exclusion of others. But preachy consumers aren't violating law. I don't like the "Not mine" dispute for other reasons. It IS the bureau's responsibility to provide you with explanations in plain English.. (Which is fine. I noticed that some achieved some good deletions. I don't appreciate it one bit. You don't understand why it's there? Demand an explanation. Now.. about some FCRA street fighting. Please investigate the following items on my report. Please investigate this. Nothing works all the time.. But don't lie.. Preach and preach. In the last session I mentioned that it's hard not to feel a lot of empathy for folks who try something and then it fails and they feel doomed.. That's why. Indeed. "Items which don't belong on a consumer's report violate federal law. Please investigate this item. they really aren't yours or weren't ever late. and REPETITION throughout the year." Yes.) That created quite a stir on the board. 41 ." (etc. ok) You can write that in your own words a THOUSAND different ways. You profess to just not understand. Keep in mind this: NO intervention ever works all the time. and I'll mention those in a minute. . Here's another credit bureau intervention. remove such data immediately... Perhaps another day! END CREDIT 105 42 . Then of course I realized that the chat room software had crashed. You'll prevail eventually. and that one simply must dust oneself off and try again or try something else.. and if you find that you have included incorrect information.." post-seminar note from PsychDoc: What I didn't realize was that everybody wasn't ok. Please facilitate this lawful request within 30 days.. I continued merrily typing away. I wondered why nobody else was typing... although I realized that something was wrong. lol.. Credit repair can test your patience. Unfortunately I didn't get to banter with Gryf regarding my contentions that sometimes credit repair interventions fail.Keep up the good work.. "Are you aware that reporting items late which were never late violates the law? Pursuant to my rights under federal law. that sometimes something will work for one person and not for another. I am requesting that you investigate the following account immediately. but the eventual rewards are good. 1) Hard work. we're all grateful. If they weren't there. I want to differentiate tonight's credit repair interventions from next week's. TeeSharice.FCBA brief -4-.. I thought it would be useful to recognize the Creditboards Forum Leads and Mods.Third-Party interventions I taught developmental psych as a grad student back in the day. we're going to restrict ourselves tonight to those tradelines which may show late payments reporting to your credit reports but that never reached R9 or I9 status.. HDAlex.Creditor interventions -6-. 4) Participation... Once again.. The forum Moderator job requires so much. the boards would likely degenerate into a spam-filled morass where Viagra postings would surely outpace anything related to consumer credit by 10 to 1. Specifically.e. I think.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-...Creditor motivation -5-.Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-. they never. (in alphabetical order) cotterpin.. Once again. -1-. ever... and TxQuiltGirl . MarvBear. fla-tan. (LOL!) Anyway. i. 5) Willingness to play cop when "bad people" (and they know who they are) drift in like a bad log in a tide.. 43 ..... Tonight's syllabus.. rigirl.... 11/17/2005 Tonight we'll delve into the kinds of hardball tactics you can engage with creditors. Specifically. CramItCCCAs. I hope I didn't leave somebody out..LESSON SIX TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 106: FCBA Street Fighting. So. 2) No pay.. Now we delve into the material for tonight specifically. for what they do here. charged-off or were listed as a collections accounts. ain't that the truth! LOL. 3) Knowledge. gotta have a syllabus. among other tactics. So I started reading a bunch of credit repair books. I thought.. it was a Yahoo discussion group. Well..... My thinking was faulty. Holy moly.. Anybody ever had any of those? smile.. you have no leverage.... but I don't want to get ahead of myself. "What the heck..I did a lot of research and "adopted" some very fine teachers online and off.. who was an attorney.. 30 day lates.. ha) I was finishing up my doctorate. and that was not the one some of you may be thinking of... To make this long story MUCH shorter.. TONIGHT however.... and I had lots of student loans.. Did I get an education that day? My credit was destroyed. I knew very little about credit reports..gif.. 30 days to 150s.. according to them. and my new wife and I decided to buy a car... you pay your debts. so what if I'm late?" Then one day I got married. we'll discuss that. to borrow the language of people who are two decades younger than me (I'm 44). next week.. Really late.." (Which I don't believe. we'll discuss those pesky accounts which never charged off but report nasty late pays.. 90s. breeze is included in that category...... 60s. 44 . (doesn't that make it sound longer than it was.Next week we'll tackle collections and charge-offs -. and the primary credit repair intervention imposed for those types of accounts is termed "validation" which is the word actually used within that federal statute.) So I went online and discovered the main credit repair discussion board on the net in 2000... Somehow I never let anything charge off.. those books SUCKED! They all said that if I paid off my debts I had no "leverage." Apparently "leverage" was reserved only for those who let things charge off.. And I was late on all of them...There were others I'm leaving out... those credit report items which are termed "R9" (for revolving chargeoffs) or "I9" (installment chargeoffs) by Equifax.. I was just a guy with a bunch of late pays.... and so was my brother.. 150s. 120s... and unfortunately they . Those kinds of tradelines fall under the purview of the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA).. My entrance into credit repair occurred a half decade ago.... I'll pay them. but that didn't help my situation.. and they told me the same thing: "Oh man. and that's a fine technique by the way.. and then you negotiate the tradeline removal...in other words..... by the way. The jiu jitsu of dealing with creditors is to use their motivation to benefit YOU. 2) They don't want to fool with your credit problems.. b) The Nutcase Series.. but I think it's simply "just because". First.But the short of it is... the classic "Goodwill" approach.. Essentially. if approached on the right day.. There is a common thread to all of these direct-to-creditor interventions. So... and 3) whose credit was TERRIBLE These are the interventions we'll discuss tonight.. some creditors. and 2) who paid the bills. "just because they value your business"..The approach simply involves this. and we'll discuss that shortly.. CREDITOR MOTIVATION.. but I've seen the results it gets). Let me cover the next topic on tonight's syllabus. Here are PsychDoc's Creditor Heuristics 1) Creditors are in business to loan money. and perhaps d) too. Saying your sorry. Saying you won't do it again. but I didn't check.a series of credit repair interventions was fashioned which would restore "leverage" to those of us who: 1) didn't want to lie. 3) They don't respect people with credit problems generally. lol... They include: a) The Goodwill Letter (heavily influenced by marci. I would like to say.c) is cited on Creditboards btw.. and then we'll delve into the interventions themselves. Dancerat). a Creditboards member). And there are others of course. Asking if 45 . Those five heuristics are key. 4) They wish you would go away. will forgive a negative credit report listing just because.. d) The Knockout Letter (written by a very controversial fellow... 5) They are highly motivated to avoid even the hint of litigation or embarrassment. I'll also post links to those letters.. Saying you had a bad moment. c) The Dancerat letters (written by a member of another discussion board.. and if the right representative is engaged. spouting whatever the CBer can come up with that's close to a legal theory that might fly (in the Bizarro World)... A CBer posted this. then I'm all for just starting fresh.. Some people cry (and they're right in one respect). the more likely the success. what it ISN'T.. I think that's a respectable argument. etc. There is a "classic" goodwill example that I'm sure is posted to Creditboards.. etc.e... You can and SHOULD change that a bit to fit your situation. oh by the way. be persistent. then delete the tradeline. And this and that. first. If you want a CLEAN slate (because mortgage brokers will give you sheer hell even when they see even a 30 day late or whatever).. LOL. because those are usually tried in order to attempt forgiveness of an allegedly outstanding debt. And. tagalong.... and I'll bet that's what he's referencing. but it's not that. I'm intimately familiar with that one. even severe tradelines can give way..I have a personal philosophy about that..... the Nutcase series. (and I like this CBer. With my personal credit repair I didn't care whether it was removed 46 .For those who have not succeeded (yet). Very matter-offact. But.. Very nice. Really.. lol.. you actually saw success with 2 90 day lates using Goodwill? That's fantastic...the less severe the item. Maybe somebody's generic nutcase letter is that..Let me say.. Has anybody had success yet using the Goodwill approach? Some yesses and some no's. And this over here and that over there...... It asks the creditors to verify this and that. "So the nutcase letter is basically an ITS with a foaming-at-the-mouth rabid tone.there is redemption in this lifetime at Sears. So nibanike." i.... It's a great way to start.. The next credit repair intervention for late-pay creditors is.." WRONG....... just so we'd have a convenient moniker.. I think wayhigh is correct. validation letters sent to creditors.. and I also think that -. Sometimes the entire tradeline is removed..typically -.. if you can't comply with these lawful requests. the Nutcase series uses non-angry language. although as we've seen here tonight. "TAKING THE TL AWAY ENTIRELY IS WORSE THAN LEAVING IT BECAUSE OF MY CREDIT SCORE" etc... It looks a lot like "OC validation. and it's certainly true that an established account with a high line of credit adds points to credit scores. But there is a specific series of letters that we "named". so don't take this out of context). use a variety of approaches. your explanation.. You build your credit. and d) don't reference a transaction that was part of a problematic insurance dispute (with all the laws pertaining to that). Sure. The nutcase letters dispute the validity of the NEGATIVE TRADELINE REMARKS and do that by hinting at one or more violations of consumer protection laws.. but typically: -.. lol).proof that the debt existed. It's all about your goals. if you've had a Sears account for 7 47 . Keep in mind that the nutcase series of letters is aimed at forcing a fully paid creditor to demonstrate that the late-pay notations in your credit file are: a) proveably correct. lol) but rather to present as a litigious nutcase who is "up to something" and who should be dismissed as cheaply as possible and quickly (by deleting the negative tradeline notations.Goodwill letters work best with fully-paid... still-open accounts with isolated and relatively minor late-pay notations. we've seen people have success using this technique with seriously-late and paid/closed accounts as well (hence. There's no rule of course. among other things.. LOL. of course. It is a perfectly legal letter whose object is not to present as a psychotic (as some people seem to think. b) don't violate your civil rights. This differs TREMENDOUSLY from a standard validation letter for unpaid [alleged] debts..txt A few words about when to use Goodwill versus Nutcase. the "no rule" caveat.. c) weren't associated with an "encumbered" consumer protection issue.. Sometimes you get a bit worse before you get better. Now. http://www. your score may dive at first. since that standard validation letter is asking for one thing -. There is actually a series of them. hopefully.entirely or if just the negative portion was removed. but it's like psychotherapy.Here is a link.. Regardless.psychology. lol).. and your scores rise precipitously.net/credit/nutcase. So. I wanted a clean slate. The nutcase series DOESN'T DISPUTE the original debt's validity at all. I was 150 days late several different times over a period of several years. 3) REPETITION..) In that case... failure to post payments and other credits. I was destroying my credit and didn't even know enough about CRAs to know it at the time. with my PHEAA student loans. So I went with the Nutcase letter and they folded quickly. That said.. 4) PATIENCE Next intervention. The Fair Credit Billing Act requires creditors to bill correctly and completely. That's not how the intervention was designed.provided the creditor receives your change of address..Nutcase letters work best with paid/closed accounts for which there was serious delinquency one or more times.years.. (Basically. in writing.as wayhigh said before here. I certainly wouldn't send the "nutcase" for that because: 1) you currently have a relationship with the creditor. If there is a heuristic in here somewhere.. but typically a "courtesy adjustment request" (Goodwill letter) stands a better chance if the delinquency occurred within the context of a properly-maintained account -. math errors. and charges for which you 48 ..... I wouldn't pay for 4 or 5 months and then I would make a big lump payment to bring it current. 1) PERSISTENCE. my mantra. for example.. FCBA. Quoting from the second session of this series.. asking for a "courtesy adjustment" seems like a pretty huge stretch even for the most kind-hearted customer service employee.. -. failure to send bills to your current address -. and 2) an isolated example within the context of a valued customer's otherwise excellent account history really beckons for a "courtesy adjustment" rather than the implied threat of a lawsuit. and you were late twice three years ago.. So. While. and only you can be the judge.. We have seen lots of good responses for Nutcase with charged-off accounts when sent to original creditors... charges that list the wrong date or amount. charges for goods and services you didn't accept or weren't delivered as agreed. such as returns. maybe it goes like this: There's lots of overlap. Again. so your mileage may vary.. "The FTC summarizes the statute's prohibitions as follows: "unauthorized charges.. 2) A VARIETY OF APPROACHES.. at least 20 days before the billing period ends.. regarding the FCBA...." So. For that reason. "Dear XYZ. 7) Ignored change of address requests. 5) The creditor never ignored your change of address requests. including charges and interest. "In accordance with my Federal civil rights as stipulated by the Fair Credit Billing Act.. Consider this FCBA based credit repair approach." Some may remember that in an earlier lesson I briefly mentioned one proposed FCBA intervention. 4) Every statement was sent to the correct address. you want to ensure the following before ANYTHING is reported to the bureaus. or rescind these reports from every consumer reporting agency to which you have reported same.. 9) The creditor didn't break their contract with their customers in any way. that each statement be sent to the correct address. you are obligated to comply with this lawful request for elaborated documentation for billing.. that you not ignore change of address requests. 3) Every statement was created in a timely manner. The Fair Credit Billing Act requires that you bill correctly.. or disputed charges which weren't facilitated correctly and in accordance with your rights as stipulated by the statute. 2) Every item billed to an account was billed correctly. 6) The creditor never ignored disputed charges.. for the life of the account. So. 1) The account was created at your request. Your expeditious handling of this matter is expected.ask for an explanation or written proof of purchase along with a claimed error or request for clarification... and that you facilitate disputed charges in a manner prescribed by law. as well as a full accounting of where each bill was mailed. 8) Interest and late fees were computed in accordance with federal law and with any laws specific to your home state. lol. forward a notarized statement on your letterhead which will attest to your compliance to the FCBA generally and to my account specifically throughout the 49 . didn't contribute to negative credit bureau reporting. The Act also stipulates that you provide lawfully requested information concerning my account upon request in a timely manner. but you should also leverage HIPPA there... lol interesting. They just look like they're written by somebody who calmly has it together and is about to escalate. 4myfuture. delete the negative marks you have reported to the three consumer reporting agencies within the timely manner prescribed by law.) Very good... but I could be wrong. They'd rather go attend to their business. But Dancerat used a different tactic.net/credit/dancerat. But he wrote a VERY good direct-to-creditor intervention. Unlike the Nutcase series and Bauer's Knockout tactic which do not disclaim the original underlying debt. calm.psychology. and released it to the internet gratis -.. Remember my byword: tell the truth. more grist for the fire you'll set. Some dislike him. Anything that smacks of possible litigation makes creditors nervous. make no claims. Otherwise.. I'll not review the history. Unlike the Nutcase series. The Dancerat approach actually disputes certain aspects of the underlying debt. lawful request just gives 'em the willies.. Bill is a cantankerous old coot.. Dare I say the name. definitely. I don't think he or she ever registered on Creditboards.txt Next I want to mention another one that has achieved excellent results for many on the net.. the DanceRat approach uses a "not mine" claim.. gmta clouds. ha.period I have been a customer. Others don't.. Dancerat DOES make a claim. Dancerat was a participant on another board. so this should be used carefully. and unlike the FCBA approaches mentioned here. The NEXT creditor intervention in this vein is the Dancerat approach.. Bill Bauer? (OH NO. tagalong. Your prompt attention will be appreciated. (and for that matter unlike the FCRA "prove it or lose it" approach I've described in previous sessions for credit bureaus). like the Nutcase approach (especially Nutcase letter 1). http://www. I'm being chased away.. Here is a link to the text for that interesting direct-to-creditor approach. Yes. A polite..which is 50 .. And I say that affectionately. Yes..." Remember my Creditor Heuristics. Keep in mind that these sample FCBA approaches.. They just don't want to fool with you. ..... Now I'd like to move to the last item on tonight's list of topics..... It really doesn't matter what silly names we've given to these different categories because YOU can write one even better. Has anybody ever seen good results (or bad) from using third-party interventions? do tell.. we've covered the direct-to-creditor interventions. It pays to know the laws...... perhaps the best third-party intervention would be a letter to your state Attorney General!) 51 . lol.. creditors don't want to be embarrassed.. lol. of course.. (and I hope someone here invents the next super intervention. 1) the Federal Trade Commission. I've told a couple here. Typically. Well.. lol: TRIANGULATE. and some don't (i. you'll be in a terrific position to improve upon these. or come up with your own unique approach..e........ The division between... versus b} not making a claim .. And I've given you a sense of how they divide themselves into the two categories. that's right. They HATE it when consumers complain to.. argh... or even aspects of various laws. "prove to me you have complied with the law. (So in that regard it's diametrically opposite to the method Dancerat utilized. Some make a claim (i.see it's really for me to keep me on track heh ain't that the truth breeze.psychology.) Here's a link to the text for that: http://www.txt The thread that connects all of these is.. zappagal (VERY GOOD. 3) Consumer web sites like PlanetFeedback... He called it the "Knockout Letter". This is where you essentially do what we shrinks always advise people not to do in their families. a) making a claim.unusual for him. will remain of course.... checking my syllabus.. the more...... You have to decide what you're comfortable with..com (which I understand is back after a brief hiatus)... They may mention various laws. Ok. the better for all consumers) that they make a request for ACTION or DELETION.. But after you have become familiar with the various consumer protection statutes.. otherwise delete")...e. REVIEW the second lesson of this series. It's something like the Nutcase series in that it DOESN'T make a claim.net/credit/knockout. "I was NOT LATE").. And some examples you can use.. Third-Party Interventions. 2) The Better Business Bureau. or even trash them. and .. which is... sometimes it's best to learn about those just by reading the anecdotes posted to the board. you should assess your risk... chargeoffs. Let me also encourage everyone to post about their successes and otherwise.. let me just end by encouraging everyone to search Creditboards for references to these interventions.." Try it one way. For Nutcase. The Knockout Letter is typically "Bill". and I love NOTARIZED signatures because they spook creditors. so I'm not one who offers that kind of advice. END CREDIT 106 52 ..wayhigh: I'm not recommending or not recommending any of these. I prefer polite... LOL. etc. i... or whether it should be handwritten. It looks like a polite document that your lawyer prepared. tagalong.. again. We will dip into VALIDATION. or whether it should it be typed. I wish there was a "right" answer. a VARIETY of approaches may be what it takes over the course of a year.... walkingthemaze put it just right Buck. . Very good.. so that others will be able to benefit from your experience.... and I'm not taking anything away from them by the way. or sent with purple ink.whether it should be CMRRR. It's one more arrow in the sling... So. collections. Ok. both the direct-to-creditor ones and the third-party ones. so just delve in... smile..e. student loan guarantors are like most other creditors.. The legal counsel at Citibank once removed a bad student loan tl for me when the customer service reps said "no way" "1-2 Punch" next session -. zappagal... and some of the peculiarities of the FDCPA. Definitely work the contacts if you have them... wayhigh. lots of debate about that. but the Knockout Letter has netted great results as well. In two weeks. Lots of very smart people have opinions about all of that.but nothing's "required. What works for one sometimes doesn't work for another. That's why I prefer the Nutcase series (and you knew I'd say that).. I love CMRRR... and yes. You'll see the gurus taking positions on all of that -.. contentious.it's a variant on validation. Some make great points.. With respect to the third-party interventions. I've seen success both ways. then try it another. I've just seen positive and negative results from just about every combination..gif I think we can all be grateful for this wonderful community. Brief review of the previous sessions -3-..The sequence -6-.Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-... They would threaten "debtor's jail" (something that doesn't exist in the United States) (but don't travel to Uruguay!) They would telephone relatives. (Before. -1-. as I hope everyone knows. As we discussed in Lesson 2.FDCPA brief -4-. collection agencies and their employees are regulated by a federal statute -. Tonight's syllabus. And the REASON it was enacted was because debt collectors did (and still do. 1) Provides behavioral standards for acceptible third-party collections behavior. 12/1/2005 Tonight we'll delve into dealing with some of the nastiest people on planet earth.... CAs would employ all kinds of shenanigans to mislead consumers regarding who they were. some of which they weren't actually entitled to pursue. The FDCPA in a nutshell.) 53 . (and perhaps there are a few nice ones. unfortunately) demonstrate questionable business practices.. And I understand they're pretty nasty on that other planet too..) talking about debt collectors.What is validation? -5-. debt collectors could call you on the telephone anytime they liked.. They could threaten all kinds of legal action. friends and embarrass the alleged debtor. So Congress passed the FDCPA in order to stem such practices and to give consumers some teeth.The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. That law was enacted in order to protect all of us. Until the FDCPA became law. 2) Specifies that CAs must always include several legal caveats in their dealings with debtors. bosses.Controversy abounds Well......LESSON SEVEN TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting. I hope tonight that we'll delve in and give some shape to the material so that you'll be less confused! Since we're talking about actually READING the Act..htm Read it tonight or tomorrow.. LOL.... and that's here: FDCPA � 805 Also.ftc.. Ok. I would specifically recommend that anyone who is being pursued by collection agencies (CAs) read the act. FDCPA � 805 (a)(1).. (Those are the names of the FTC Opinion Letters.. but they have proven to be quite influential with most judges in courtrooms as evidence. there are some FTC Opinion Letters which underscore that. Among other rights. If you inform a CA that you no longer want them to contact you.hopefully certified and sent with return-receipt requested) that the CA "cease and desist" from communicating with the debtor further. they cannot. Note especially certain sections. but I heartily recommend it. Has anyone actually read all or part of the FDCPA? some yes.) By the way. Borowski. has anyone ever come across or referenced FTC Opinion Letters? They're found at the FTC site. Fisher. LaScuola.. Halverson... by the way...... by letter -.... 4) Specifically details a consumer's right to request further information regarding an alleged debt... Look for that in this section. Kwait.e. Here's a good FDCPA citation. etc... http://www. Atteberry. Collectors can't telephone you at work if you tell them not to.. annotate the Act a bit Collectors can't call after 9 pm or before 8 a.. Jones. Zbrzeznj... Some not. But note the following 54 .3) Allows the debtor to formally request (i...let me help those who haven't read it at all..gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact... it can be confusing. That's YOUR local time. FDCPA � 805 (a)(3) Collectors should NOT give information about you to third-parties (friends.. a few people. Look for that in this section. I hate to give homework.... family.). These do not carry the force of law.Let me help those who've not read it at least join the group who've read parts of it. I'll cite a few more for the transcript.. coworkers....here's a link.m. Great. LOL. some no. let me clarify a few things.." Before I go into this. "You can only request that information within 30 days. 1691g© from the FDCPA: "The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer." "And if you don't pay.. I knock on your door. with a $1000 statutory award for every infraction.." The door slam is one thing. And the ones who don't. Now.. "What is validation?" Let me start by describing a scenario. having said that. You want to know that I actually own the debt I claim I do. And sometimes our experts roll over with 'em. moving along in the syllabus.. You want to know that you actually incurred the debt once upon a time. and we won't cover small claims this time... etc. Next.. Citation. CEASE & DESIST can be very powerful. I'm Randy Padawer with the Randy Padawer Collection Agency. Threats.CAVEAT>>>Most informed folks will serve up the excellent recommendation that you only inform them not to telephone you. By the way. You want to know who I am.... FDCPA � 806 and FDCPA � 807 give you specific rights against other abuses. The FDCPA citation for that consumer right is HERE >>> FDCPA � 805 © ... I want you to jot this down.. The FDCPA says.. So that's why many of us don't recommend telling them not to WRITE you. I'm going to ruin your credit. You want to know what that $500 is about.. 55 . Now. We've reviewed the major sections of the FDCPA and provided specific citations for you to review. because the only Sears debt you ever owed was for a third of that.. So the FDCPA accords you the right to information. just because you FAIL to dispute the debt within the 30 days doesn't mean you have resigned yourself to whatever they say." "And you owe me $500." In other words. Some people say flatly... but let me reiterate something anyway. let me backtrack a bit. There are 46 folks in the room. We roll over.. Ok. there's so much material that I hate to gloss over (but this is a beginner's course).. We don't quote that enough. At your house. "Hi.. Many CAs will oblige.... You'll find an excellent Cease & Desist example on Creditboards in the letter archive. can be sued.. . if you're looking for slam-dunk court case... or the name and address of the original creditor and a copy of such verification or judgment.. Regardless. In fact. Will a judge stand behind you? Sometimes yes. AGAIN.. Like every credit repair intervention cited so far.. or name and address of the original creditor. Now. You can request validation at any time. But no law limits your ability to request information. if you've pursued it within the 30 days. in the table of contents. BUT YOU MAY.." That's where the 30-day clock reference originates within the act. sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.. But let me say this.. yes. in response to a request for validation (irrespective of when the letter was sent)? I want those who read this transcript in the future to be encouraged. or any disputed portion thereof until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment. as we've seen in this transcript tonight. let me move onto another point of interest.. A 56 .. and sometimes no. you're in a MUCH more powerful position. sometimes it works. the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt. or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor. is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector... Now. then. Has anyone here ever had a tradeline wiped off a credit report.. It can work. Here's another one for Gryf's notes. or an alleged debt removed... If you are outside the 30-day initial collection period. don't let that dissuade you from pursuing the other side vigorously if that's what you need to do. In any case. Now. and that's irrespective of that 30-day period. Results matter."If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) of this section that the debt. Question. or any portion thereof. I think) and some won't. Some judges will cite the 30-day thing (in error. Note that it doesn't say anything about validation.".... a request for validation sometimes results in a consumer-friendly response no matter when it was sent. and as a section header. is disputed... Some judges despise debt collectors. and sometimes it doesn't. That's your consumer right. you should be encouraged. The operant word there is "can. the word "validation" only appears TWICE in the Act. YOU MAY NOT PREVAIL IN COURT.. Because. LOL. if you're looking for a clean report. " That is not a dispute. ask your friends on the board before citing any case law (or statute for that matter). It is a request for information... We like it 57 . Spears v. 2005. by the way. let me reference TWO MORE laws that many of you know well.. tonight I'd like to do something exciting. If the collector sends what they consider is verification (and THAT's the word used within the paragraph under the Validation heading.validation letter is not a dispute. October 17. This is too new for me to elaborate HOW we will benefit. Just because you have requested validation doesn't mean you have disputed anything. anyway.. I hate hype. and this is not one-on-one legal advice. I don't know you.. I *NEVER* have said anything like that in the first six lessons... Recker v Central Collection Bureau. "NOW YOU MUST PAY" in the same letter or if they do ANYTHING during that period that smacks of collection. On a related note. Here's the gist.. Southern District of Indiana. it's a time-waster).... a court has affirmed that validation is a separate event from the debt collection period... but we WILL. simply. or.. Spears was a mixed case.. please do your due diligence regarding research. you have a nifty citation to reference in your next letter to them. Inc. and the second one is one we don't. although it was settled MOSTLY in favor of the consumer... Otherwise lose it and remove it.. The dispute comes AFTER.. if the collector validates or verifies or sends adequate smokes signals. Please identify yourself better and tell me about this alleged debt.. The exciting thing is this. LOL. Now. You're saying.... you have a case law citation to present in another court. PLEASE never get caught up with people who want to argue those two words with you. "excuse me. Brennan 49A02-0003-CV-169... Yet. since I am not one. And post it to Creditboards. That means. and at the same time says. LOL. etc. Thank you. But this is exciting.. The first one is one we like.. Please consult with your attorney if needed. Also. I hope you'll find it and read it. I've never had an account with ABC Collections.. In other words. You don't know whether or not you are going to dispute the debt because you don't know if you owe it yet... A debt collector who simultaneously verifies and resumes collection activity violates FDCPA.. Timing becomes central. a new court case.. And.. First. because... The signed contract is not enough. It merely shows the presence of an original agreement. It doesn't prove that the customer still owed money. The second citation seems to refute that, but I'd like to delve in a bit there too, and that one is indeed Chaudhry v Gallerizo. By the way, when you search the board for Chaudhry... also search it for the misspelling Chaudry... people always leave off the second "h" but you may overlook some very good information, so search both ways. As you see, they LOVE to cite Chaudhry because they CLAIM that this case TRUMPS federal law. In other words, they say that since a section of Chaudhry says that a simple note that the consumer owes "this much" is enough information in response to a validation request... that must mean that the FDCPA (a FEDERAL statutes) has been overturned. Now isn't that crap? LOL. Plus...By the way, that's Chaudhry v. Gallerizzo, 174 F.3d 394 (4th Cir. 1999). Anyway... Plus, when you read Chaudhry, you'll see that the CA had already sent some information. They actually sent what some of you hope you never see.... which is... a lot of substantiation. The consumer pressed it. And the CA responded with just a note the next time. And the consumer pressed it again, took 'em to court and lost. The citation about the single line being enough is... TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. (Ditto re: WhyChat's analysis.) So YOU have the right to snap right back at 'em with that. Plus...let me be clear... The CA in that case provided a bunch of validating information. It was the SECOND PASS where they provided a "look, we're fed up and want our money" note. The case itself was about something specific.... plus, as you just mentioned...if you don't happen to live in the 4th District, it's not the law of the land EVEN IF your situation was EXACTLY as Mr. Chaudhry's. So don't let them cow you with Chaudhry. So don't let the validation-debaters cow you with the 30-day warning. You just go, go, go. You do not give up any right when you request information. Again, you may not win in court. But, then again, most of you won't go to court. Most are interested in clean credit reports. And of those who do go to court, you MAY win! Ok... Moving on... I want to list some FTC Opinion Letter names for your reference that discuss CAs who refuse to validate... Mezines, Cass, Berger, Bergstrom, Castle, Miller, Wollman, Krisor... You've got some homework now, 58 LOL! There's obviously not time to discuss every one... Now... About collectors who threaten to sue you outside of where you now live or where you lived when you incurred the ORIGINAL debt (which is a no-no, by the way): Reference FDCPA � 811 (a) (2). Also reference this excellent case citation... Yu v. Signet Bank, California Court of Appeal, First Appellate District, Division Four, 69 Cal. App. 4th 1377, decided 02-16-1999. And this FTC Opinion Letter... In other words, if you incurred the debt when you lived in Kentucky... and now you live in Minnesota... and the CA is in Kansas... that CA better not try to sue you in Kansas. They'll need to file in either Kentucky or Minnesota. Otherwise they are SCREWING with your civil rights. I hope this is helpful so far...During tonight's seminar, you've been provided serious annotations from the FDCPA... Also references to some very relevant FTC Opinion Letters... Also, some good cases (and of course there are lots lots lots more for those who want to delve in) to cite... Also, some encouragement regarding pursuing CAs... irrespective of the calendar. Also, some testimonials within this transcript from those who confirm that opinion vis-a-vis credit report results. And finally, you've been reminded that a request for validation is not the same as a debt dispute. So.. Now I'd like to turn to the SEQUENCE, which is the next item on our syllabus...Basically, beginners will hear a bunch of stuff... terms... like... validation, verification (and people killing each other over those words, lol)... etc. Let me just provide an oversimplified sequence for newcomers... 1) You request validation of a debt. 2) They either send you something or not from a debt collector Courts have not yet defined exactly what constitutes good validation. This works in your favor. You are not obligated to be satisfied with what they send, LOL. Of course, you can be satisfied if you want to be! Basically, you want a lot of information. Now... sometimes you have to be realistic about how far you want to pursue this... whether you will go to court or not... when to hold 'em... when to fold 'em (anybody care to sing?) If you contend that they haven't provided proof of the debt... you can contend that they have violated the law by continuing to collect... If the debt is small, most CAs would rather just move along to the next 59 person who will wither and cry on the phone rather than deal with a troublemaking citizen who knows their rights. Now, if it's a $32,000 alleged debt to Citibank, you can bet that they're going to pursue you if you owe the debt! We've known one or two charlatans in our community who've made a job out of cheating creditors, suing them, sometimes winning, and bragging about it. Let's not name names. Please. But... That is certainly not the way I would recommend you live your life. I guess that's enough to say about that. Each state establishes their own guidelines with respect to when a debt is no longer collectable (i.e., the statute of limitations). A SOL doesn't prevent someone from attempting to collect. The SOL simply provides you with what's called an "AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE". That means... They can continue to collect. You go to court. They say, "Judge, he or she owes me this money." And you say, "Judge, before this matter proceeds further, please know that I have an affirmative defense regarding the statute of limitations of this debt, in accordance with the law of this state." That is an affirmative defense. They can collect. They can sue. And if YOU don't assert your affirmative defense... the judge may not do it for you (he may, or may not)... The validation process is separate from their collection activity. Much more for everyone to discuss on the board. Ok... back to sequence... 1) You request validation... 2) They respond... 3) You send an "estoppel" letter... 4) They respond... 5) You send an "intent to sue" letter. Now, keep in mind, this sequence isn't the "only way" or the "right way"... It's just a way that has benefitted many I know... but... You may see other sequences that may be better for certain (or many) situations. Now, on to the difference between estoppel and intent-to-sue... Estoppel references an old English common law practice. The word is actually used in several contexts, I understand... (and again, let me reiterate my non-lawyer status)... but in our context we talk about "estoppel by silence"... In other words, the CA failed to provide validation, which is "silence" even if it was a frivolous response. 60 and keeps the debaters on the board debating. You can find all of these letters I believe on Creditboards -. So. -6-. I just prefer not to get into that.. the FDCPA references "verification" within the Act.. As we've seen." That's estoppel in a nutshell. or if OCs validate or verify.. "please prove this to me" and "this is definitely not mine" at the same time! If you know for a fact that something is definitely not yours. Some of the people arguing I respect VERY much.. then the intentto-sue letter. But you're doing too things at once. It's just the next letter in a sequence that can be effective with a CA who is sick of fooling with you. So. You be a nuisance too. "Hey. then there's no need to ask for proof..... I would recommend that you search the board for "reaging" and "re-aging".. Of course. you're saying.. you must stop. then estoppel.. LOL. ARGH. about whether CAs validate or verify.. as I said. and they instruct everyone that a validation letter must include a debt dispute.) First.. it gives quite a lot back when it says that if a consumer doesn't do that. which they may not want to do even if they think they'd win. It matters because of that 30-day reference. Now to the last topic on our syllabus. Now. You're saying.. but you haven't shown that I owe this. another controversy.Controversy abounds.. Keep in mind that they don't mind being a nuisance. but...and certainly lots of references to them. etc. You don't have to be more polite than them. Probably NOTHING inspires more debate in our wonderful consumer advocacy community than the things I have dared to discuss tonight. People will argue. you *could* do that. again. So that seeming contradiction keeps the courtrooms busy." they are essentially admitting an inability to fulfill the lawful request. The FDCPA says you must "dispute" the debt within 30 days of first collection. There are clear rules about it. I asked for proof of this debt. and we know how debt collectors are. Now. I have seen posts on various discussion boards on the net where the person gives a play-by-play about what constitutes a validation letter.By their "silence. I'm willing to pay any debt I owe.. validation. then they're not necessarily giving up their right to assert that the debt isn't theirs. which is why consumers are protected. (And who may worry that you are a litigious crazyperson who'll drag 'em into court.. if you understand that a validation request is not a 61 .. .. We've covered the syallbus. then....) Ok... you didn't dispute this within 30 days." and you .. You just keep hammering them. competent validation. I hope tonight was helpful. plus. "Nah. proof. It's soooooo late... We've gone over by almost an hour.. They come back and say.. I haven't disputed anything.....dispute.. nah. I'm issuing a lawful request for information.. 1) cite the FDCPA reference that says that you don't have to roll over and 2) you say. and amazingly almost everyone has remained! So I thank you for that. I am going to do something I regret. in the words of some lawyers I respect.. END CREDIT 107 62 . you skirt the issue altogether. (If that's what you want to do. Fortunately (or not.Being litigious -4-. Now. even if you never go to court..Collecting evidence -6-.LESSON SIX TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 108 This is the last of our series. And perhaps even tapes of certain telephone conversations (in cases involving CAs who call you before you send a cease & desist). Think in terms of a lawyer in a courtroom who calmly states his or her case with deadly seriousness and then sits down.. threatening.My complaint letter example I'll draw from my own experience. cursing. Screaming. I'd like you to develop a mindset... a litigious mindset. some people mistakenly believe that "being litigious" means turning into your grumpy Uncle Abe who yelled at everybody. Think like the detective who deliberately collects evidence.. Your credit reports. that's not the way to be.Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-.. Tonight's syllabus.. I really don't want the newest newcomer to get the idea that we're all about lawsuits here.. etc. If you'll keep that in mind. You can literally clean up "impossible" credit reports and never set foot in a courtroom. On to the meat of tonight's syllabus.Types of "credit repair" lawsuits -5-... I really want to give a caveat.. slamming the phone.... More about that shortly.. and that's the topic of this last seminar of the series. Tonight's session is the third of the second group. -1-. For those who are showing up for the first time tonight.. may make you feel 63 .Brief review of the previous sessions -3-. yelling. I'll feel a bit more comfortable proceeding. You probably will never need to file a lawsuit.. if you enjoy screaming). Your evidence are the letters you send and receive.Being litigious. -3-.The small claims process -7-... Some of my fellow old-timers remember a half-decade ago when I successfully sued the three credit bureaus. . that's this one. when the other side doesn't show. the plaintiff (you) get awarded what's called a "default judgment"...FCRA violation: not properly verified the debts as valid within the reasonable time period prescribed by statute -. It's nice to stick onto a lawsuit.. Let me throw out a question. the final transcript will be cleaned up some so folks don't have to jump around to follow… ok.. Now.. 64 . by the way... Would you be willing to tell us about it (if you can) with just a few summary sentences? very good. more common violations directed toward credit bureaus…. a creditor. that "reasonable time period" has been held by courts to be 30 days. But first.FCRA violation: insufficient and incomplete investigation (keep in mind these are things you can sue over) -.. Here are some common violations directed toward credit bureaus (and of course there are others): -.. make no mistake). or a collection agency? many no's of course.FCRA violation: willful noncompliance with the Act That one's a very general one.powerful. Never misrepresent.FCRA violation: failure to provide information regarding an investigation pursuant to 611(a)(3)( C) -..FCRA violation: failure to provide the requisite notice regarding an investigation's procedural and contact information pursuant to 611(a)(6)(B)(iii) let me retype the end there pursuant to 611(a)(6)( B )(iii) -.FCRA violation: tradeline verification despite proof that such verification is impossible . On to the various types of credit repair lawsuits...... Basically. The next two lawsuit complaints directed toward CRAs aren't specific to the FCRA.. I realize this is a seminar for beginners. but we welcome the experience and wisdom of those who've ran around the track a few times already too. if a credit bureau demonstrates a pattern of neglecting to comply with the law.. In fact. that said.. one presumes that they are DELIBERATELY doing wrong. -. we'll talk a bit tonight about how "playing dumb" sometimes entices the other side to break the law (their fault. let me reassert the message from Session One.. Has anyone here ever filed a lawsuit against a credit bureau. Be honest.. But it probably will do nothing to assist your case.. the statutory award doesn't preclude additional damages.FCRA violation: failure to provide information regarding an investigation pursuant to 611(a)(3)( C ) ok. and also to plug the board here which is filled with folks who stand ready to discuss every topic.-.FDCPA violation: continued collection activity during period of validation or dispute… By the way... there are certainly others): -. Remember our message from the FCRA Street Fighting seminar.......FDCPA violation: harassment or abuse (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 d ) -. LOL... provides additional ammo for this one 65 . .I'll continue listing potential violations for CAs next (not inclusive) -... Credit bureaus enjoy no governmentally sanctioned "official" status. that would indeed be 17 violations. with a statutory award of $1000 per… which brings us to the next list.FDCPA violation: telephone contact despite a lawful cease and desist notice Right.. the case cited last week.Defamation of character -. they are privately owned (except for Equifax which is publicly traded.. but still owned by its shareholders) entities whose primary business is to buy and sell information (i.. if a CA calls you at 2 in the morning for 17 days in a row.. common violations directed toward collection agencies (CAs). So this is a good moment to reiterate that.I'm no lawyer. these next two aren't FCRA-specific -. (and again. then they are defaming your character by definition.FDCPA violation: actual or implied threat -...FDCPA violation: insufficient and incomplete validation -.. if they say nasty things about you (like you don't pay your bills on time). Do we have one in the room tonight? (Wouldn't that be handy.. Inc. gossip) about you and me. Recker v Central Collection Bureau. We sometimes see lawyers in our Creditboards community.Negligent enablement of identity theft Basically. Rather.e.. and especially so if they have made an error. LOL?) -..FCRA violation: failure to provide information regarding an investigation pursuant to 611(a)(3)( C ) now that's for credit bureaus... :) More seriously. ... they can't show that you applied for credit.. if the CA reports incorrectly to three bureaus.-. and you'll see my sample complaint shortly....e. 66 ... but coupled with -. despite your assertion that the information is wrong (and if it is indeed wrong) his question.FDCPA violation: communication with third parties (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 c ) -..FDCPA violation: willful noncompliance with the Act (this last one much like the FCRA one referenced for bureaus above) gotta love the "willful noncompliance" and. employment..FDCPA violation: false or misleading representations (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 e ) -.FDCPA violation: communication with third parties (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 c ) the "defamation of character" complaint can have teeth…. Ok. let's defer questions just a bit for the moment.. Well..Defamation of character although that may be less strong with CAs.e. not all-encompassing): -. insurance.. LOL -.. again. in the case of CAs. Usually.FCRA violation: credit report accessed sans permissible purpose (this refers to when a company puts an inquiry on your credit report without any permissable purpose) (i. in cases where they are only communicating with you . When I sued the bureaus. if they cannot provide adequate validation. and neither do they have a prior relationship with you) Just for the sake of covering the material that isn't beyond my expertise... they have defamed your character... it lists multiple violations if there are more than one. it's the CRA who defames you if they sell the erroneous information to others. then they have essentially told an untruth about you i..FDCPA violation: unfair practices (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 f ) -.. That's also true for CRAs. to continue.. when one files a lawsuit against a CA... I listed multiple violations on the same suit. common violations directed toward OCs (again. etc. does that constitute three separate violations at $1000 a pop? very good.When it comes to a credit report. LOL. if a CA manages to let your boss or a neighbor (or whoever) know who they are and why they're calling you then they have not only violated the FDCPA but. the CA cannot continue what's termed "collection activity".Collecting evidence… oops.. Basically. You want to send that CRA dispute within just a few days of their receipt of the validation request.... Some people believe that testing the limits of a CA's compliance isn't ethical.. it was listed above briefly this business of inquiries and what the FCRA terms "permissable purpose". here's how that works........-. It's the creditor's responsibility to demonstrate that they 67 . you request validation 2. or otherwise erroneous data to a consumer reporting agency -... Timing is everything there. a CA has a duty to abide by the principal federal statute that regulates their profession. I have an opinion.. . line your ducks up... I believe that nothing limits a consumer's nuisance quotient. Keep in mind that even if your goal isn't to collect damages (and mine wasn't. my goal was simply to clean up my reports) you can "collect your evidence". if they do.. innacurrate..... Irrespective of whatever letters you write.. let me mention one other special case.. It may be worth a try.. Ok.FCBA: refusal to provide lawfully requested account information and once again. If the CA "verifies" the account during the period they're supposed to be gathering the validation materials for you...FCBA: incorrect or untimely billing (within 30 days of statement receipt) -..FCBA or FCRA or FACTA violation: willful noncompliance with the [Name of] Act I wanted to mention a special case.. -.About the next item on tonight's syllabus. for what it's worth. We've seen good results with the 1-2 Punch....... Sometimes newcomers will see someone refer to the "1-2 Punch". The "1-2" part of the "punch" works this way 1. and use an "intent to sue" letter (search the board for good examples) to net a CRA deletion.. when you're sure they've received your lawful request you immediately dispute with the bureau.FACTA violation: reporting incomplete.. which includes reporting to bureaus. they've violated the Act. they've violated the FDCPA so.. When a consumer requests validation regarding an alleged debt. -5-. (something I'm usually loathe to do):) NEVER THROW ANYTHING AWAY WHILE YOU'RE ENGAGED IN YOUR CREDIT REPAIR CAMPAIGN. permissable purpose" only refers to companies which take a look at your report as with inquiries Let's say there's a Verizon inquiry on your report.and that can be a good choice.. Basically.. Keep it all. Even the most benign response may show that the other party is lackadaisical about your concern. 2-party states (and there are fewer of them) require BOTH parties to 68 . If you elect to deal with CAs by phone..I'll explain 1-party states refer to those states where only 1 of the tapes parties needs to know about the recording in order for the taping to be legal that means. despite the pat advice you sometimes hear but again if you elect to deal with CAs by phone... LOL? (I sure did.had "permissable purpose"… Think of it this way.... The second type is really particular to dealing with CAs.... Let me do all caps for just a moment. How many people have stacks of reports.. (Did your spouse hand over your SSN?) It's Verizon's job to demonstrate that they did indeed have permissable purpose.. forget it. letters. search the board for examples) and netting a deletion of the inquiry. Ok. everything you do in credit repair is evidence.. otherwise... There are 1-party states and 2-party states.. on their kitchen table or computer desk.. you may have excellent leverage for crafting a letter.. don't they? :) :) Ok... then it's legal in those states.Collecting evidence. send a cease and desist letter to them and only deal with them with written correspondence. Your requests for information from OCs or CAs.evidence your concern that you may have been damaged in some way. keep it all So that's the first type of evidence collection. I'm going to move forward -5-........ You may be able to settle for the $1000 statutory award. etc. You don't have a Verizon cell phone.) spouses hate that stuff.. Your request for information (or outright disputes) directed toward CRAs. And if you like the courtroom. If they can't. if you're doing the taping and you're one of the people on the call. then you MUST record them. Their responses constitute evidence. especially one of the strong "intent to sue" varieties (again. You don't remember telling them to pull your credit when you had that conversation with the salesman. then you can tape.know about the recording..and YOU live in a one-party state.. irrespective of where they are it's not your responsibility to catalog their call center geography but if YOU initiate a call to a two-party state.here's an interesting distinction that isn't often elaborated if someone calls YOU.. then you can tape too... if they told you the call may be taped. or if you live in a two-party state and you initiate the call. now.. END CREDIT 108 69 .