One God, One HammerA summary of my experience and knowledge of the God Thor The Count von Count Expert at RTS-Sanctuary 1 Th(f)oreword 2. Th(e)ory.Fan-Patch 2. .The Count von Count vs DuduTheSpartan .The Count von Count vs Seattle .Thor in tournaments .Index: 1. My view of Thor.God paths .Countering .Thor in the actual Top 20 . What do the facts say? .Thor in RTSL 3. .Building orders . Competitive Thor-play.1 4. Game Analyses. Pro-decision-making.J4Jc3 & FireFox vs Armycore & Berserker 2 . Foreword Lately a friend of mine (MpT_Brewster) opened a topic on RTS-Sanctuary about Thor. another expert Thor-player. He also asked how that came. He took notice of the small amount of Thor expert replays being posted. beside the fact I was camping in the Top 20. However. I liked him the most and he was considered as one of the stronger gods. All of this happened within two weeks. Four years ago I rarely played other gods but Thor. I never reached the Top 1 spot. One day I decided to make a new nickname. But how accurate is that decision actually? In this guide I will show you the facts of competitive play and I’ll take you through all the knowledge I have of Thor. It made me think. I betrayed my own god and picked Loki to get 1900 and eventually Isis to beat Adhafang and became the Top 1 fairly easy. DoD_J4Jc3 and I analyzed some of our own games to share our experience with you! 3 . TheSoothingLight. At the end. I never lost my true love for Thor even though I prefer playing Isis/Oranos in competitive games nowadays. Is Thor out of the meta? Or is it just a coincidence? 4 . How good is Thor when looking at the facts? Top 20) Let’s start with actual top20.Competitive Thor play: What do the facts say? In this topic I will show you some statistics of Thor. Today (the day of writing) is Tuesday the third of December. How many of these players play Thor as their main god? 1 OLDHOLBORN 2 [DoD_]TheMistaGreco 3 TheMistaGreek 4 Ghostlake 5 Breekachu 6 [DoD_]DoD_FireFox 7 [mG_]RaNgErS 8 [DoD_]N1NHO 9 mago05 10 [MpT_]Swedish_Chef 11 [MpT_]mErt_ 12 [ AoD_]AoD_Amezy_Arak 13 [IDF]DuduTheSpartan 14 [ArF_]Adhafang 15 [MpT_]_Elmo 16 XAthenaX 17 Dlehniem 18 [XpT]ArmyCore 19 OneGodOneHammer 20 [MpT_]Ert_ 2160 Zeus 2111 Zeus 2042 Zeus 2039 Poseidon 2031 Loki 2024 Ra 2007 Set 1993 Isis 1992 Oranos 1990 Poseidon 1989 Ra 1986 Loki 1984 Set 1981 Greek 1963 Zeus 1962 Zeus 1961 Poseidon 1959 Oranos 1958 Isis 1952 Ra None of the actual Top 20 players is playing Thor as his main god. random god tournaments). (Sep 2013) PK tournement. To get a good view on Thor’s performance in team games. was in 2008. That’s a pretty good status considering the zero picks in 1vs1 tourneys. 8 times people decided to take Thor.Thor-picks when money is involved) Also the amount of Thor players in tournaments is shocking. I have been analyzing the finals of the bigger tournaments (cash-wise) hosted within the last two years (excl. I analyzed the last 5 seasons of RTSLFinals. However none of them decided to pick Thor.B Amount of Amount Amount of Gods of Thor Games with picked picked Thor 17 1 11 2 10 0 6 2 9 3 53 8 Amount of games Thor won? 1 2 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 2 7 2 In total 62 gods had to be picked in the finals of the last five RTSL seasons. Here are the data. (Nov 2013) Expert Inv. Not even once! The last time Thor has been involved in a RTS-tourney final. (Jun 2013) Holiday Turbo (Dec 2012) Last God Standing (Jul 2011) Winner Count v Count Themista Armycore Magyar Armycore Amount of Amount Gods of Thor picked picked Loser Swedish Chef Ghostlake Spoeft Themista Spoeft In how many games has thor been used? And how about other gods? 6 6 6 8 6 0 0 0 0 0 32 0 In the last three years 7 different finalists have been picking 32 gods. However the winning percentage of games including Thor is significant. RTSL-Finals) Nevertheless lots of people used to think Thor is pretty strong in team games.A Loser MpT DoD mG DoD DoD . Nemesis chose to play Thor versus Dante‘s( Sonic) Isis. Tourney Boit 100subs. Season 20 19 18 17 16 Winner LNC LNC TSM mG DoD . 5 . Unfortunately he didn’t win a single game. Thor is one of the weakest gods in the game. 6 . Neither has Thor been picked in tournament finals.5% we can conclude Thor isn’t a good pick in team games either. Also the “common” knowledge that Thor is strong in team games seems to be pretty biased. it’s proven that Thor did not even win one out of the three games played in RTSL-Finals. The facts are clear.With a winning percentage of 28. Besides quite a fair picking percentage. There are literally no Thor players in the top20 left. Thor-Rush (3:50) Use: Atlantean. non-aggressive team games Rcx example: http://rts-sanctuary. In this topic.com/TheTitans/fview=4&showtopic=215333&#entry2354273 Tips and Tricks: Spam boats. aggressive water play Rcx example: http://rts-sanctuary. Highland and Midgard. I will give a subjective view of Thor’s strengths and weaknesses. burn down his forests and make sure he resigns when his 3000 goldmine collapses. Spam horses and make your second settlement before the 10 minute mark. Build Orders) First of all. let us start with some basics about Thor.com/TheTitans/fview=4&showtopic=133852&#entry1515360 Tips and Tricks: Make a forward temple and spam as many units as possible. but on my own experience playing him.com/TheTitans/fview=4&showtopic=125005&#entry1405948 Tips and Tricks: Win/defend water and prepare for a massive boom. I illustrate the BO’s with recorded games posted at RTSSanctuary. 6-5-5-Raid (4:40) Use: Open maps. micro and win water! Two-Docks: (5:10) Use: Anatolia. use forest fire asap. Just defend well and aim for a massive ragnarok! Grush: (4:10) Use: Mediterranean. There are 5 Different build orders I would like to share with you. Rcx example: http://rts-sanctuary.Theory Everyone has his own opinions about what is good about his god. 8-5-5 (5:10) Use: Booming. My statements in this topic aren’t based on facts. Egyptian. Greek Rcx example: http://rts-sanctuary. Make as many 7 . Raiding. Make sure your opponent can’t hunt outside his base. Forward goldmine Rcx example: http://rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/showtopic=227283 Tips and Tricks: Build defensive and aim on raiding. Norse.com/TheTitans/fview=4&showtopic=134273&#entry1520943 Tips and Tricks: Make a second TC as soon as possible. Hereby an overview of Thor’s minorgods.fishing ships as possible and keep the tech-researches rolling! Minor god-picks) Another question lots of people asked me is what minor-gods they should pick.facing Isis on land . The ulfsark-upgrades are alright. 8 . Which means. Firstly because of the Trolls. The cavalry upgrade Freya has. It’s very useful if you have to fight vs Loki’s myths or the A+E combo. There are two reasons why I would pick Forseti.facing Hades/Zeus low-hunt Personally I think Freya is in almost every case the better choice. That’s why I also prefer Freya above Forseti against Atleantean. although ulfsarks suck anyhow.facing Loki on land . But I prefer giants. I pick Forseti in the following cases: . The other reason I would go Forseti is because of the Hersir-upgrade. or if I aim for ragnarok. Valks are really strong and useful. Especially when you are playing a watermap. they are easily spammable on every map. Furthermore Freya’s godpower can be really handy and give you an advantage early on. Battle Boars are strong. Most people insta pick Bragi without even watching the particular situation they are in. Personally I pick Bragi if I need a breakthrough. Of course that’s different in any case. Definitely more useful than Forseti’s ulf-upgrade. They cost wood and not much favor. is also quite good. It can be used aggressively. Also frost-gaints are a real pain in the ass. They have a lot of armor and hitpoints. 9 . In team games you can pick Skadi to help your teammate or prevent your own opponent from doubling. Her god power is really good.Skadi. And of course. In mythic age. there is only one god you can pick. on the other hand is the minor god I prefer to pick as my heroic choice. It’s Baldr. but defensively as well. they have a great special. Oranos: Water maps and hunt maps are fine. When I think there is no way Thor can win a matchup.Isis: You might win if you can manage to hit Rag. . But hades does not have early siege so Thor can survive and try rag. I give it a 0.Kronos: Deconstruction can really slow you down and a good krush is rough to beat. Horrible matchup. Mercs and Early animal attack. Thor is bad against: .Hades: Tox are OP. Low-hunt however is a pain in the ass.Gaia: Thor sucks vs early aggression.27 Average Thor is good against: . Walls and Mercs.Poseidon: Low-hunt and Medi will be hard.54 4.Ra: SS. Zeus Hades Pos Isis Set Ra Loki Odin Oranos Kronos Gaia Medit 1 3 3 2 3 5 7 7 4 3 4 Highland 0 3 4 3 1 4 8 7 5 3 8 Anatolia 3 5 6 3 4 6 6 8 6 5 8 Midgard 3 5 6 3 3 5 5 8 7 7 8 Alfheim 3 3 4 3 3 2 2 5 3 3 6 Ghostlake 2 5 6 3 3 4 3 6 3 4 7 Oasis 3 4 5 4 3 3 3 7 4 4 7 Savannah 3 4 5 5 2 4 3 6 4 4 7 WH 2 5 6 6 4 5 3 8 6 6 9 Marsh 3 5 7 6 3 4 2 8 5 6 9 Tundra 2 4 6 4 2 3 2 7 3 4 7 2. Just resign. . All other maps are fine. . Gaia can’t play really aggressive nor defend rag.3 3.Loki: Myths units can’t be countered. Only watermaps are playable.18 5.Odin: Thor is a stronger variation of Odin. On the other hand.8 2.Counters and Countering) In what case do I pick Thor? In the table below I give you an overview of every matchup Thor could possibly get in. If you manage to win Zeus go straight to RTS-Sanctuary and ego-post. . Especially Einherjar rock da house in early game. . I give a 10 if I feel like the matchup is free win for Thor. Thor is playable against: .8 4 4 7 4. There is no other way to fight Isis. unkillable siege in Classic and a strong late game.27 4. Roc. . Shaduff.Set: SS. Ancestors. Mino. This table is based on my own experience with Thor. . the game should be equal. 10 .Zeus: Bolt. . Also Bragi is really good in Rag-wars. When I give the matchup a 5.45 7. What has been changed? And what does it mean for Thor? Let’s take a look! In the following table I have put every change that directly effects Thor strategic decision making. Nerf Tireme Nerf Bolt nerf Makes it easier to raid Easier to raid. Easier to micro at water Bolts can't kill ulfs. 11 . double ulfs vs Zeus on watermaps isn’t necessary anymore and Egyptian became rushable/raidable again. General Thor Crennelations nerf Walls nerf Rag + FW nerf TA Boost Eggy vs Thor Roc-speed nerf Roc . The green chances are positive. Picking fights vs Oranos became possible (TA bonus). Zeus can't siege-rush as good as he use to do Less range.1 has been released. spears and murmilo's Towers can hit Rocs now Roc die more easy TA deal more damage to rocs now Land army can kill Eggy docks on anatolia or Highland Eggy's can be rushed/raided much easier Less easy to raid as atleantean Better chances due fights vs ora Gaia can make cheaper hero's now and isn’t a free win anymore.Fan patch) Recently Fan-patch 2. but it seems promising for Thor players. harder to protect against rag Ragnarok and Flaming weapons can't siege anymore Thor can fight better vs hops.HP nerf Roc . and the red ones have a negative influence on Thor. Makes Anatolia & highland are less worse Overal many changes impacting Thors-playstyle. The main goal of this fan-patch is to make this game more balanced. I haven’t played any games with the new patch yet.Hack armor nerf Dock less HP Watchtower upgrate Atlantean vs Thor Ora speed nerf Shockwave-stun nerf Heart of the titan boost/Gaia’s hero cost reduce Greek vs Thor Zeus Inf. Key points: 1) First of all I decided to get two ulfs. Before the game started he already flamed me. 6) The game goes on and I think of gold-starving him. This is a game I lately played against Duduthespartan. 4) I decide to age rather late. 3) He used his vision early on. he had a really good map with a huge backward-goldmine next to his backward TC. Otherwise I would prefer to build a second town center as soon as possible. He can’t really catch me off guard. This way I could get more gold to get some walls up as soon as possible. I try to prevent that by walling my food in. Thor vs Set on low hunt. Pretty effective since I have no hunt. since my walls keep him away from my hunt. That’s totally fine with me. However. I just make some army as well and try to make counter units (TA vs Spears). On low hunt you need as much sheep as possible.Game analytics The Count von Count vs Duduthespartan http://rts-sanctuary. This way he can’t use the backward goldmine. so he needs hyenas or pharaoh to scout for his Shifting Sands. 7) I go for a full-dwarfeco. 2) Secondly I went for an extra dwarf on gold early in the game.com/The-Titans/showtopic=227286&#entry2435111 I have a couple of games I want to share with you. 12 . 5) He plays quite aggressive with some spearmen. My starting-gold will collapse soon so I need an army to claim a new one. so I prefer a strong eco above a fast uptime. So I decided punish him for his bad behavior. because I was “counter-civing” him by picking Thor. So I decided to do something odd and steal his backward settlement. Let’s start with one of the worse matchup Thor can get. I wall of his home-town and forward camp. Now I have to think of a plan to get back in this game.8) Of course he wants his backward settlement back. Which means. This way he can’t make any priest. so he is focusing that spot. He won’t have any food to produce anything else. So I anticipate and make huskarls + BBs. 12) HUEUEUE. I scout the amount of farms he has. It’s time to finish him. FIREGAINTS TOO STRONK GG NO RE 13 . 9) We are 17 minutes in game. To make sure he is not trading either. Even tho they suck balls and have hack-armor. It works pretty well and I kill quite a few of his chariots and suffer only a few losses. He only got 13 farms. it’s the best siege Thor got… 11) As you can see on this mini-map I have been raiding all his goldmines with my heroes. It gives me time to rebuild. Which sucks for me so I go straight for Baldr. mercs or towers You can also see me having quite a nice trade. To make my rag even stronger I mix Rams into my army. he will be making Chariots and siege towers. 10) The game goes on and he can make counter units. My economy is rather hurt. he has no defensive units/buildings close to it. In this game-analysis I explain the way Ragnarok should be used properly. 50% his farms are placed next to this town center. When I saw his defense. 2) I don’t want to face endless Merc-floods. and he decided to go for a 3tc boom. but my economy can’t compete with his. But most important. I follow up. There is only one thing I can do now.The Count von Count vs Seattle) http://rts-sanctuary. He clearly has a good economy Furthermore I don’t have flaming weapons nor Rams to siege his migdol + tower lame. Luckily for me I got watering-hole. he launches a non-stop attack on my forward settlement. I freeze his army to delay his attack. Ragnarok! :D This is his defense line at the moment I use my Ragnarok. so I run straight to his trade. He eventually breaks through.com/The-Titans/showtopic=227289&#entry2435115 Once again I face Set. He starts the game with some early aggression. 1) His backward town center in the left bottom of the map is one of these weak-spots. it is the TC he uses to trade with. 14 . So I decided to attack somewhere else. but can’t boom as strong as he can. I have to upgrade my towers and back off my hunt. which is one of the better maps in this matchup. Beside the two towers. When he hits heroic. This time its DoD_Seattle. This TC also is the key to his economy. I had to make a plan. My strategy works pretty well. 15 . I keep raiding with my ragnarok heroes and make sure he can’t make any trade or gather gold at all. These are his resources at 25 min (4min after casting Ragnarok). he forfeits. I finish the job with some fire giants and Balista-ships. One is next to his backward settlement. Another one is next to his trade and the last mine lays just behind his forward settlement. I never fought his army / buildings and just ran straight for his economy. I would like to remind you that Ragnarok-heroes suck against buildings. The strong economy he useed to have this game. You really need flaming weapons to break buildings. When my economy is rolling again. Fortunately I have a few ox-caravans to gather some gold despite the rag. Now it is just a matter of time before I can kick his ass. When he sees that I am fully recovered.3) Furthermore I search for his goldmines. So have to kill that town-center as well. became history. In my opinion its best to use ragnarok to demolish the economy of your opponent. The settlement is also the gather point for the rest of his food-industry. 16 . this gold mine leads to an insta loss. The plan is to use rag as excess pop and turn the game in your favor considering it will hardly touch your economy. You are supposed to take out your opponents key resources in the first 2 mins of casting rag. J4-Rag: This rag is based on cutting as much as possible costs in order to achieve a strong rag as soon as possible. a good Kronos will either attack or double me on that gold mine. I save my dwarven mine and still aim for an advance under 5 mins. You use it to take out key points in the game. no building upgrades. If he manages to beat it. it is clear that we need to do something in order to regain map control.com/The-Titans/fview=4&showtopic=227042&#entry2433569 The game starts with me noticing my horrible forward goldmine against a Kronos and a Thor. This rag is hardly ever going to finish your opponent. but mostly it wins the game in the period of 5 mins after the overpopulation has disappeared. You achieve this rag by playing semi-normally: you cut out the big costs costing food and trade gold to food for faster advance. it’s used to either gain map control or to cut the opponent’s trade. then attack my partner again and the game is inevitably lost. This is the rag that either wins or loses the game and comes mostly unexpected. This is a rag which sometimes finishes the opponent immediately. This is true for some sorts of rag. spam vills.[DoD_]J4Jc3 & [DoD_]FireFox vs [XpT]ArmyCore & AoL_Berserker). but it is completely wrong for others. no unnecessary eco ups.Written by DoD_]J4Jc3 http://rts-sanctuary. Once they double FF (who also has a forward gold mine). no unnecessary army or armory ups. I disregard their attacks on my town and just constantly attack them while aiming for ragnarok. So in order to prevent this. no trade. VonCount-Rag: semi-expected rag with a small trade in order to make fire giants afterwards. Afterwards. This rag is specifically strong in team games. Considering this is a team game and my partner is Ra. Why is that? No matter who my opponent is. because your play is based on keeping your opponent busy until rag and not on beating him immediately. which will put me on defensive. such as gold or trade tcs. instead of focusing on only one: (i_r_)n00b-Rag: you simply play the game like you always do. although they are all good in different situations and any Thor players should know when to use which. It is a very expected rag and used mostly when your opponent is truly prepared for it. then move to me. so FF decided to vill rush. No farms. you most likely lost the game. Therefore. spam trade and cast rag. so FF can boom. no necessary tcs either and trading ALL res to other res for both armory upgrades as mythic age. My role here is basically to keep both players busy. Most people think that rag takes no skill. the opponents have both the map and the time to attack my partner. I will enumerate different rag-sorts from least to most skill. Afterwards. which reduced the time needed to achieve mythic age: These were the upgrades of Berserker’s cavalry when I advanced. this game was straightforward for any Thor player and the focus shifted on FF who was the star of the game.because your partner gains time and can afterwards tribute you the resources in order to finish the opponent if his partner provided help against your rag. this may be reversed. 17 . This last rag was used in this particular game. it cut off their gold. weakened Berserker’s rag by killing his vills and provided time for FF. because they were both trying to beat the rag. Now look at the difference in advance times: His rag (which is a sort of VonCount-Rag) was much stronger. but had considerably less impact in this particular game than my J4-rag. everything in this game is situation dependent. in other situations. It was based on cutting costs. Obviously.