Can 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal of the year of birth of Our prophet“Rasoolollah Sallallaho Alaehi wasallam” occur on Monday? Emailing between these astronomers: "Ebrahim Senior"
[email protected],"Khalid Shaukat" <
[email protected]>, "Muhammad Odeh" <
[email protected]>,
[email protected], "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <
[email protected]>, "Omar Afzal"
[email protected], "Shaikh, Salman Z (Salman)" <
[email protected]>, "Your Friend Your Friend" <
[email protected]>, "Abdoulaye GAYE" <
[email protected]>, "Mutoha" <
[email protected]>,
[email protected] Introduction of the group of
[email protected] All members of our group
[email protected] are very much expert of Astronomy or very much interested in it, so never think that you are sending an email to a group of both common and proper persons, they all are VIPs of astronomy. Yes Br Odeh & Br Khalid Shaukat are not a part of this group, while Yallop, Dr Shahid , Dr Abdali etc are also in this group. It is another issue that they usually don’t participate in discussions due to their social activities as many recipients of current discussion are not taking part in discussion. Friday, February 20, 2009 1:04 AM From: "sultan alam" <
[email protected]> Dear Dr Abdurrazzaq (+ other) Assalamo Alaikum As you proved very nicely that astronomically 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal 11 AH can occur on Monday as well as can you prove that on the year of the birth of our Holy prophet Muhammad Sallallahon Alaihi wasallam i.e. on “April 571”, 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal can occur on Monday. Visibility curves for “April 571” are attached. Wassalam Muhammad Sultan Alam Head of Research Committee of Astronomy Department of Jamia’-tur-Rasheed Ahsanabad, Karachi.Pakistan http://www.esnips. com/user/ moonsighting http://www.kulyatus hariah.edu. pk/jrks/jsp/ Cell # 00923332213520 …………………………………. Friday, February 20, 2009 3:45 PM From: "Qamar Uddin" <
[email protected]> Dear All, Assalamualaikum Wa-Rahmatullahi Wa-barakatuh. If you accept that New Moon was on Friday 10/4/571 20:56 UT, then the Hilal would have been sighted on Saturday 11/4/571 and hence 1 Rabi-ul-Awwal was on Sunday 12/4/571. Therefore 12 Rabi-ul-Awwal cannot be on a Monday. According to Maulana Samiruddin Qasmi (Manchester, UK), Muslim historians do not agree on this date to be either a Monday or 12th - but just a tradition for celebrations of Mawlid-un-Nabi (see details below). Please correct me if you think I am wrong. Wassalam, Qamar Uddin Islamic Crescent Observation for UK: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ICOUK/ ~ They (the people) condemn what they do not understand [Latin Proverb] ~ ---- New Moon: Friday 10 April 571 20:56 UT Day April Rabi-I -----+------ -+------ Sat 11 - Sun 12 1 Mon 13 2 Tue 14 3 Wed 15 4 Thu 16 5 Fri 17 6 Sat 18 7 Sun 19 8 Mon 20 9 Tue 21 10 Wed 22 11 Thu 23 12 Some Muslims celebrate the birthday of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) in this month (Mawlid-un-Nabi) . There are no authentic evidences from the Seerah or the Sahabah (companions) of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) for doing this practice. Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said not to unduly praise him like the Christians exaggerated over Isa (alayhis salam), son of Mariam (Bukhari). However, if it is unavoidable, it should be done without fixing the same date in all occasions (as practised by the Christians). …………………………………………………. Friday, February 20, 2009 5:59 PM From: "Khalid Shaukat" <
[email protected]> Wa alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah, You cannot relate any Gregorian date with Islamic dates before Hijri calendar began. Because there was the practice of Nasi; in Makkah and Medinah in those times, and no one know which month was added when. Rabi-al-Awwal of that time may not be the Rabi-al-Awwal without Nasi'. Khalid Shaukat ……………………………… Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:30 AM From:"sultan alam" <
[email protected]> Dear brother Khalid Shaukat & Qamar Wa alaikumussalam Actually we prefer 8 th Rabee-ul-Awwal as the date of birth of our Holy prophet Sallallahon Alaihi wasallam. Deatail is underbelow and also attached in English and Urdu for comments of experts. This time my question is that 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal can occur on Monday or not? You say not and brother Khalid shaukat says that we cant say anything due to Nasi’. Well, now I need the opinions of other experts. Wassalam Sultan Date of birth of the greatest benefactor of humanity, Rasool-e-Akram, Ahmad-e- Mujtaba, Muhammad Mustafa sallallahu alaihe wasallam. Honorable Ulama-e-Kiram and Astronomers, As-Salaamu ‘Alaikum! I have written an article on the date of birth of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam. I would appreciate your expert opinion on it. Sultan 10the Rabi-ul-Awwal 1429 A.H. Question: Different people have quoted different dates as the date of birth of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam. According to your research whose opinion is more to be trusted than the others? Please let me know. Answer: About the birth of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam, there is a consensus of opinion that he was born on Monday and in the month of Rabi-ul-Awwal. What was the date on that day? Although Allama Mughaltai has given preference to 2 nd Rabi-ul-Awwal but Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas and Jubair bin Mut’im Radhiyallaho A’nhum have been quoted as saying that it was 8 th Rabi-ul-Awwal. A majority of muhadditheen and historians believe in the legitimacy of the latter view. According to absolute data such as the birth of the moon, sunset and moonset, it becomes certain that in the year Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam was born, Monday could have fallen on the 2 nd , 8 th , and 9 th of Rabi-ul-Awwal. However, 12 th Rabi-ul-Awwal simply could not have been a Monday, Details are given below: Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam left this world on Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 AH at the age of 63. Thus if we travel 63 years backwards from Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 AH we find that the month of Rabi-ul-Awwal will coincide with April 571 A.D (A record of the time of birth of the moon in the month of Rabi-ul-Awwal every year, for 63 years, is given at the end). On Fri. 10 th April 571 A.D. at 10:45 a.m. (Saudi Standard Time) the moon was born. In Makkah Mukarramah, on the same day i.e. on Fri at 6:32 p.m. (sunset) the crescent was only 8 hrs. 24 min. old and it had set only 12 min. after the sun. According to the ancient and modern criteria of the possibility of sighting the moon, this crescent could not have been seen in any part of the world, let alone in Saudi Arabia. Had it been discovered in North America there would still have been very little chances of its being sighted. On Sat. 11 th April 571 A.D. the crescent’s conditions were so excellent in the evening that it was capable of being easily sighted in a major part of the inhabited world. Thus if it had been sighted by the inhabitants of Makkah on that night, the next day i.e. Sunday would have been 1 st Rabi-ul-Awwal and Monday would have been the 2 nd . This would prove Allama Mughaltai’s (Rahimahullah) research to have been correct. However ‘capable of being seen’ does not mean that it was ‘definitely’ seen. As, for example, in this month i.e. Rabi-ul-Awwal 1429 A.H. what happened was that the crescent, according to numerous criteria, was capable of being easily sighted on Saturday 8 th March 2008 in Pakistan. Yet no news of its being sighted in any part of the country was received. Thus Sunday was declared 30 th Safar, and Monday the 1 st of Rabi-ul-Awwal. It is therefore entirely possible that the crescent (of the month Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam was born in) though capable of being sighted on Saturday night was not actually seen at all. Thus 1 st Rabi-ul- Awwal would have fallen on Monday and 8 th Rabi-ul-Awwal on next Monday and this is the date cited by Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas, Jubair bin Mut’im radhiyallahu a'nhum and declared legitimate by a majority of muhadditheen and historians. Wallaho Aa’lam Muhammad Sultan Alam Head of Research Committee of Astronomy Department of Jamia’-tur-Rasheed Ahsanabad, Karachi.Pakistan http://www.esnips.com/user/moonsighting http://www.kulyatushariah.edu.pk/jrks/jsp/ Cell # 00923332213520 p pp p Z ZZ Z v vv v Z ZZ Z ° °° ° . .. . , ,, , . .. . 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Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:04 PM From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <
[email protected]> Dear Br Sultan Alam, Salaam, Greetings; I have always thought and will think of you, as a curious, hard-working and very precise in doing research, as a result of your earlier correspondence. In the meantime, you have ignored a few earlier discussions, in regards to the onset of the Islamic Lunar Calendar and still you are using a sole source for generating visibility curves, which had a few discrepancies, as brought up in the following previous email, as an example, you may kindly search for other chain emails, in this connection: --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie <
[email protected]> wrote: From: Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie <
[email protected]> Subject: Re: [moon_sighting] Re: Subject: SHEIKH AL-OBAIKAN COMMENTS FROM SAUDI SHURA COUNCIL - 2005 To:
[email protected] Cc: "tsofa" <
[email protected]>, "Khalid Shaukat" <
[email protected]>, "bdyallop. freeserve. co. uk" <
[email protected]>, "Omar Afzal" <
[email protected]>, "M. Shahid Qureshi" <
[email protected]>, "Saleh Al-saab" <
[email protected]> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 12:46 AM Br Mutoha / Br Sultan Alam / Dear All, Salaam, Greetings; I hope you might have gone through these chain of emails and helping me, the soonest, on the following subject; with the aid of the soft wares available to you, preparing the where about new moons diagrams on Wednesday, July 14, 622 C.E. and Thursday, July 15, 622 C.E., two days before the onset of the lunar Hijra calendar which began on Muharram 1, 1 A.H., corresponding to Friday, July 16, 622 C.E. in the Western solar calendar commonly in use by many nations of the world. However, based on the enclosed visibility curves, generated from Accurate Times / ICOP, the onset of the said calendar has been assumed one day earlier, on Thursday, July 15, 622 C.E., based on the assumed expanded criteria of the visibility, anywhere on the planet earth, which could not be acceptable, according to the naked eye visibility, then in practice, in Mecca. The requested diagrams will help scholars to abandon various sighting methods like aided eye, satellite, CCD, etc., keeping the chronology unchanged through history. Otherwise, with the development of science and technology, one has to shift the dates, and when dating back for each new breakthrough, it will not be ending up to the same beginning date of the Islamic Lunar Hijra Calendar, on Friday, July 16, 622 C.E.! Best regards, Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie I second the comment of Br Khalid, since I had gone through a booklet, published in 1977, in India, long ago and unfortunately I have lost it. The booklet was a result of a Thesis, by Dr. Hashim Amir Ali, Hyderabad, and probably published by Khuda Bakhsh O.P. Library, perhaps in 1977 and entitled "Upstream Downstream Reconstruction of Islamic Chronology". As a must for any research, one has to carry out a thorough bibliography, so that you my kindly find this source and make a pdf-scan copy out of it for the reference of others and yourself, as far as your recent query is concerned, and also do not rely only on a singe source for generating the visibility curves, until you get sure there are unique results obtained therefrom. Best regards, Mashallah ……………………………………. Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:29 AM From: "sultan alam" <
[email protected]> Mak-11-4-571.gif (22KB), Yal-BT.gif (26KB) Dear Br Mashaallah Salaam 1. Thanks for appreciating. 2. I don’t rely on one curve. Result of others like moonc60 is also same, see attachment. 3. I shall try to get a copy of your mentioned article. 4. Once again I say that onset issue should be discussed but separately. Start it if you are interested but separately not with this recent running issue. Sultan See curves underbelow Sunday, February 22, 2009 12:12 PM From: "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <
[email protected]> Dear Br Sultan Alam, Salaam, Greetings; thanks for your fast feedback. I believe both issues are interconnected, as far as chronology orders are concerned. If you were getting the same curves from all your sources and they absolutely compromise with each other, thus one should end up with the same starting point in all your sources too. Best regards, Mashallah ……………………………… Sunday, February 22, 2009 4:05 PM From:"Omar Afzal" <
[email protected]> Dear All, Salaam Haikal has quoted so many confusing dates and years that it is almost impossible to revoncile. The majority agrees on month od Rabi I, and the 3rd month of the lunar year. The most commonly quoted date is that of Ibn Ishaq: 12 Rabi I Ibn Hisham's date is also12 Rabi I (Monday) of Aam al-Feel. Perceval prefers August 570 C.E I hope you are aware that according to Dr. Hamidullah the date of birth was: June 17, 569 (MONDAY) Ishaq al-Nabi (Nuqush, Rasul #2 p. 470) states it as: Do Shanbeh, 12 Rabi I, year 53 Before Hijrah Qadi Sulaiman Mansurpuri calculated (v.2, p.387) 9 Rabi I Year 1 'Aam al-Feel (Do Shanbeh) April 15, 571 Last year I came accross a valuable book during my visit to India by a an expert in Hijri Tawqeet. Unfortunately, I could not get a copy of the book. It had very elngthy discussion on the date, and evaluated both the Early Muslim historians and the Orientalists. Omar Afzal www.islamicmoon.com …………………………………… Monday, February 23, 2009 8:33 AM From:"sultan alam" <
[email protected]> Dear Brother Omar & Mashaallah Wa alaikumussalam You both mean that you cant prefer any day or date, Ok fine. Wassalam Sultan ……………………. Monday, February 23, 2009 12:02 PM From: "sultan alam" <
[email protected]> Assalamo Alaikum JFYI Deoband Urdu Fatwa in favour of 8th Rabee-ul-awwal Translation is as follows: Q. What is the correct date of birth of Nabiyye Akram Sallallaho Alaihe wasallam? What should we do on that day? Is he conscious of our acts? A. There are different words about the date of blessed birth. Famous is 12 Rabee-ul- Awwal but according to the majority of Muhadditheen and historians, the preferable word is it that Hudhoor Sallallaho Alaihe wasallam was born on 8th Rabee-ul-Awwal. Following is original Urdu Fatwa Darul Ifta Darul Uloom Urdu Magazine Arabic Magazine News [Back] Print Email India Question: 4526 . . _ ا í , م ± I _ ا « c I . ہ و . I » í _ ± > . r . l ر ﯾ r . . i ا . ¸ í . l ﮨ ﮯ ؟ ا س د ن í . l í , . l > l ﮨ . ﮯ ؟ í . l > ± « ر ا í , م ± I _ ا « c I . ہ و . I » ﮨ o l ر ے ا c o l ل . ﮯ . l > . , ﮨ . ﮟ ؟ 06 Jul, 2008 Answer: 4526 º . « . : 822 = 868 / د و V د ت . l . a l د ت í _ . l ر ﯾ r o . ﮟ ا º « ا ل o > . I . ﮨ . ﮟ o . ﮩ « ر º « ل . « ﯾ ہ ﮨ ﮯ í ہ 12 ر . . × ا V و ل í « . . i ا ﮨ « . ﮯ ۔ I . î _ > o ﮩ « ر o > i . . _ ا و ر o « ر > . _ í ﮯ . , د ﯾ C ر ا > r ا و ر o > . l ر º « ل ﯾ ہ ﮨ ﮯ í ہ > ± « ر ± I _ ا « c I . ہ و . I » 8 ر . . × ا V و ل í « . . i ا ﮨ « . ﮯ ۔ ) ٢ ( í « . _ > l ص c o _ ا س د ن í ﮯ I . ﮯ . ہ ا > l د ﯾ . o . ﮟ . . V ﯾ l í . l ﮨ ﮯ . ہ ﮨ _ > ± , ا ت ± > l . ہ í , ا م و . l . a . _ c L l م ر ± « ا ن « c I . ﮩ » ا و ر º s ﮩ l ء í , ا م . ﮯ o . s « ل ﮨ ﮯ ۔ د ر و د . , ﯾ . í _ í . , ت í , I . . l . ﮩ . , ﮨ ﮯ ۔ ) ٣ ( l پ ± I _ ا « c I . ہ و . I » . , ﮨ , د و . . . ہ ا و ر > o a , ا ت í « ا o . í ﮯ ا c o l ل . . ¸ í . ﮯ > l . ﮯ ﮨ . ﮟ ۔ و ا « . a l I _ ٰ ا c I » د ا ر ا V 8 . l ء ، د ا ر ا ì n l u م د ﯾ u : . í Use of this website signifies your agreement to the Terms of Use Fatwa ID: 4526 - Darul Ifta http://darulifta-deoband.com/urdu/viewfatwa_u.jsp?ID=4526 1 of 1 2/23/2009 11:35 PM Monday, February 23, 2009 11:57 AM From:"Khalid Shaukat" <
[email protected]> To: "sultan alam" <
[email protected]> Wa alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah, Jazakallahu Khairan, I have added it on my web site. See http://moonsighting.com/faq_ms.html#Dates Question No. 13.4 Khalid Shaukat …………………….. Monday, February 23, 2009 4:27 PM From: "Omar Afzal" <
[email protected]> Dear Br. Sultan Alam Sahib, Salaam I don't understand your comment: you cant prefer any day or date, Ok fine. I sent you the dates of the birth of Prophet (SAW) by several other scholars. My preferred date (1971:My book in English) was 8 Rabi I. In its revised new edition (to come out by the end of this year) I am leaning to the date calculated by Late Dr. Hamidullah after reading his arguments, and his book on the life of the Prophet (SAW). I met him in 1990 (though he could hardly hear) and his grand niece had to translate his responses for me. Earlier, I met him in Paris, France in August 1973 on my way to the USA. Omar www.islamicmoon.com ………………….. Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:21 AM From: "sultan alam" <
[email protected]> Dear Dr Omar Wa alaikumussalam Thanks for clarification that you also prefer 8 th Rabee-ul-Awwal. Sultan Note:2 nd part of the research emailing i.e. 12 Rabee-ul-awwal of the year of death of our prophet sallallaho Alaehi wasallam can occur on Monday or not? It is available in another paper. The End