black lodge

Hi All, 93 There's a distinct difference in the definition of the Black & White Brotherhoods in Thelemic philosophy.As the White Brotherhood is rather well defined in the Student College files, I'll direct your attention there for more information on the subject. And I'll concern myself with the Black Lodge. This is not a group of evil guys looking to destroy the world. Indeed it is not anyone at all. It is a rather nebulous force that seemingly works against our evolutionary development. Science teaches us that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So as the Aspirant reaches forward, he or she is met with a force that pushes back. It's really that simple. How then does one become a 'dupe' of the Black Lodge? This happens because of the egregore of the collective mass of people on this planet that are themselves in spiritual stagnation. That egregore runs through the planet with the force of the spring winds. And it is the principal reason why the Probationer is taught the Star Ruby. With its consistent working, one has the chance of at least getting that wind to run over and around your psychic bubble. But one may forget the Christist conditioning within oneself from the earliest childhood. It's a potent obstacle as they worst enemy is usually within. We are each our own worst enemy. Projecting that outward reconnects the psyche with the egregore and serves to destroy spiritual progress. Note that there are people called 'Black Brothers'. They are Adepts who have failed to successfully cross the Abyss. In other words, they found out that they are God...but they've retained their egoity in this experience and have not connected with the Universal Menstruum (Nuit) and so are deluded into concluding that they are the only God. This is a morbid loneliness and is why it is said that the failed Babe of the Abyss lands in the 'Lonely Towers of the Abyss'. But indeed, both the Black Brothers and the Black Lodge still serve in the evolution of humanity. The Black Lodge does this by helping us to sharpen our metal as without that adversity, there would be no impetus for us to move forward. And the Black Brother serves in much the same way as the Master of the Temple. Only the Black Brother serves despite his or her will, unconscious of the true nature of the Universe. 93/93 pj Well, I have played at the Black Lodge and I can tell you IFyou do not get in unless you have soul.( That's a play on words people) But if you dont have the blues in your soul You aint welcome there. On the other hand if you have got those deep down soul, Then it dont matter if your black or white.( Music) Therefore is the great Equalizer. Now Likewise If the Black brotherhood (Of which you speak) Had the soul I presume they also would be welcome in the White. But as they do not, They Are not welcome (Notice the Segwey there) You might equate the abyss with no Soul to get a translation factor. Regards [email protected] That egregore runs through the planet with the force of the spring winds. Now that's something really different, I never heard of that before - do you write further on this in any particular article on your website? (I want to read!) Creeping upon speculation here, the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram once used to banish old aeonic forces is now old aeonic itself, could that have to do with the directions and the winds? 93 Cammy This is becoming more interesting to me by the second... Ok, remember the theory about inertia? So when something becomes old aeonic, it adds to the egregore (or perhaps the egregore gets "recycled"), and it isn't strong enough anymore to push back. IT'S NOT HERCULES ANYMORE!!! (OR ATLAS FOR THAT MATTER) 93 Cammy 93 Hi Cammy, I think the reason the LBRP is old aeonic (well one of the reasons) is because it's realm is on Earth. Whereas the Star Ruby takes place on a higher realm. This is due to the archangels called during the LBRP (old version). When you do the Star Ruby you are higher up the tree so there is no point of calling archangels which would be done in Malkuth. Another reason the LBRP is old aeonic is because it is Golden Dawn based, and those core rituals are not tapped into the new aeon. But that is just my interpretation, I might be seeing it wrong. I have been wrong before ;) 93/93 -Lynette 93/93 pj Hi Cammy. I extrapolate Motta's writings on the egregore.. The Star Ruby has the extra purpose of banishing old-aeonic forces as well. But note. 93 Cammy Hi Cammy. For example: ["The immolation of the flame is the fire of Pentecost and the weight of the stone is the joy of the work and the edge of the blade is the truth of the argument but the baptism of water is the cleansing of the soul. The overall tone of the vision is demiurgic." And the voice laughs as if there is some joke that no one gets but him. It is part of the work of Thelema to nurture this young child.that's true. The voice again: "this is the ever burning fire the torment of the damned. Yet all the children can do at this point is squabble amongst themselves.. it was a fascinating read. The transcription immediately shows me that these entities are fucking with Jones. the egregore of the old aeon is far stronger than the young child of the new aeon.like an old man would be much stronger than an infant. Jones of his scrying and am curious about your take on it.. For me.and it gives me some insight as to the relation of the winds/directions to the Tree of Life in progressing from Malkuth (they change if you are making contact with a different astral realm). 93 I've copied a post by David R. (to this Jones comments: Here are the elements as both curses and ..] Their bellowing metaphysical jibberish also includes some lines that are deliberate contradictions of various spiritual doctrines adds yet another level to this. 93 In my article: Reign of the Demiurge. i had forgetten about that. And now the smoke clears and I see that it is a garbage fire and there are burning tires and people sifting through the piles that feed the flames. 93/93 pj Hi Runar.this young aeon. For example: [All before me is smoke and fire and a stench of burning garbage. It shares the same purpose of the Star Ruby in that it clears a sacred space and is the first step to the exaltation of consciousness... 93 Actually. the LBR was never intended to banish old aeonic forces. buying into the idea that the New Testament as interpreted by the Roman Church is a true testament. Love Jones ZEN I see the planet Jupiter in the night sky brighter than any star Through a four pane window suspended in space. And now the smoke clears and I see that it is a garbage fire and there are burning tires and people sifting through the piles that feed the flames." And the voice laughs as if there is some joke that no one gets but him. but cried not in agony for the truth can only be spoken with silence" and again: "by the crushing of stones were the demons displaced. Here's an oldy of mine from the period around the Black Lodge period to give you some ideas regarding the results to be expected. I am currently doing it right now and the effects are a bit milder than direct scrying. This is good advice." [1] And I hear a voice. as I am sure some will be to you.. but cried not in agony for the truth can only be spoken with silence. you may want to read your way through the keys first. hmmm. then go ahead... 93/93 pj ===================== > I would generally say. You might want to practice a bit with rising on the planes. And in the distance I can see the Dome of the Rock far away upon a hill and behind a great wall. that scrying the aethyrs would be safe." Now another voice clear by fey and faint in my left ear: "The immolation of the .blessing. Though I had been at it a few years by this point." [2] All before me is smoke and fire and a stench of burning garbage. But the flames still glint of the gold of the Dome. it was part of my Neophyte work. If you want to perform some kind of initiatory ritual." And another "are not the kings of Edom the princes of Hell. Joan and Bruno were burnt for their truth. And we know that Jones is comfortable here as his 'Pact' would lower his threshhold of disgust. For some good beginning work I would suggest Ophiel's little book The Art and Practice of Astral Projection and Achad's Crystal Vision.." and yet again "only the innocent drown in the watery grave. And a silent voice in my head: "Pisces was the fish of christos but the Southern fishes are the fishes of the antichristos. the Black Lodge that is speaking through him. but some aethyrs were a bit hard to deal with... Gehenna in traditional readings of the scriptures.for example: [And a voice deep and manly in my right ear: "St. Yet.and a good bit of jibberish in between. The place is the valley of Hinon. must also serve." ] There are a few more examples of each that can be found in the text. Joan and Bruno were burnt for their truth.. The voice again: "this is the ever burning fire the torment of the damned." and again "who has been slain by the sword of the executioner is martyred for God. And a voice deep and manly in my right ear: St.)] Yet inside it there is also a few revelatory truths. If you feel ready. "Did not the Romans sow the fields of Tunis with Salt?" and another "Tomorrow we shall be in Paradise. I. Iota Nu Rho Iota" (by this I understand that the first Iota is a skull and Nu is death and Rho is the Sun rising and the Iota is a seed that though buried as dead is heated by the Sun and sends forth shoots into a new life to capture the rays of the Sun). A A A A spear: "This is the spear that pierced his side. [5] Again there is a whisper: "The Tablet of Union is the garment of Christ and the Black Cross of Union is the cross upon which all who are called adepts have been crucified. And now I see that it is a candle flame in a cave or tomb." cup: "This is the cup he could not pass." [7] Now I see 4 men clothed as the 4 Knights of the Tarot and they seem to be playing a strange game with 3 dice.N." [11] And the idols are like Roman household gods and each one is painted Like one of the court cards in the Thoth deck." The second voice: "But by casting the three may the 3rd to the 18th be chosen. And upon each letter is a weapon or an idol. In the Midst of the tomb is a great sarcophagus." [10] Now a thick fog covers all and the stars disappear one by one." And the third part turns green and scaly and is cast toward the West: "the wisdom of the serpent is the curse of God. The first voice: "You cannot work without the 1st and the 2nd." coin: "This is the coin that hung his brother." And the fourth part turns black as midnight and is thrown into the North: "And in the darkness of the night is the truth of the stars revealed." [6] A scroll is unfurled upon which is written: "Multiplicity = Unity And Unity = Multiplicity. [4] But all the crosses are empty save for a serpent coiled upon one of them.flame is the fire of Pentecost and the weight of the stone is the joy of the work and the edge of the blade is the truth of the argument but the baptism of water is the cleansing of the soul. And it becomes brighter and brighter." [8] Now they rip the cloak into 4 pieces [9] and first piece turns red and bloodied and is cast into the East: "Thou shalt not live by blood alone. upon the lid of which is graven the Tablet of Union in Enochian characters. "The Spirit is the breath that God breathed into Adam." [13] . The voice "I.R. [the Tablet is laid over as follows] Spear Cup Coin Club PeS PeC PeD PeW QnS QnC QnD QnW PsS PsC PsD PsW KtS KtC KtD KtW [12] A wind passers through the midst. [3] Beyond the city is a hill and upon the hill many crosses." club: "This is the phallus that mocks us all. until none are left but the pole star." And the second part turns white and brilliant and is cast to the South: "Thus were they blinded and could not see. " Now her daughter is mother as she comes to term. Who sold him that he might be crucified for the eagle of Rome. and is happy and fat on bread and beer. And the Sabbath is black that the initiated may worship the stars. Goddess ever fruitful. And upon the face of the lead circle is a sun dial. he took up. for now I see that the wings of the eagle upon which the Prince of Swords rides are the wings of Azrael. And the fields of Eleusis are fertile again. Now the club is the phallus and the phallus is the wand. And in this cup is a bitter poison. fertile Empress of all she surveys. for they revealed the mystery of the heavens unto men. Now I see the Queen and she is seducing the goat. He takes up the spear and as he spins his horns turn into wings and Then into a top hat. the brother of Jesus. dank with the scent of urchins and crabs. The Knight goes into the field and with his club he threshes the grain. Hers is the true Graal. And there is a nymph or fairy who dances with the rays of the Sun upon the sundial. the Fool but covered with a suit of leaves and horned with the rack of an elk.Now all is animate and the idols cavort and converse. And the goat bleats: "This is the blasphemy of which the Mass is but a mockery. He that is the sun of the Queen." And the daughter of their union is horned and monstrous but from her virgin womb bursts forth the Sun into a new life. And the Queen of Cups is the Priestess of the Moon as the Queen of Swords is the Priestess of the Sun: "The Priestess is the crone who playeth the virgin and the Moon Is the virgin who acteth the crone. He is clothed in garments of gold and scarlet and horsecloth and cries: "Cursed was Copernicus and cursed was Bruno and cursed was Galileo. The Prince of Swords spins about and now he is the Green Man. For Taurus was the season for ploughing and sowing. Now he stands on great rock and bows before the bull of heaven. he puts down a sword. Now I see the cup and in it is the blood of Judas the Hanged Man." I see now that the heavens are a great clock and this is why the Prince of Disks worshipped the bull. For the Prince of Wands rides the lion and the lion is the great beast and the Emperor and tyrant who rules with the rod of iron. Now her daughter takes up her blue and starry cloak and disappears as it were into the body of the milky way. Now that Wheel becomes the Coin and the coin changes from gold to Silver to lead. her cup a cauldron wherein all dross is . but I his daughter is also his wife. So that he lays his club aside. Thus are the sorceries done in the graveyard at midnight under a full moon. the rod of judgement when the Final Trump is blown. she who tempers all things by the art. But the Knight kneels in reverence before that mystery then takes up His sword in one hand and a pair of balances in the other and stands erect. For the Moon is to Death as the Sun is to life. And the shaft. the angel of Death. And the Queen next to him takes up the sword and he seats her upon an altar stone. And she sings: "Thy father time is a great serpent. called fortuna: the roulette wheel spun by the hand of the demiurge. though the grain be tainted with black. guarded and carried by the true Knight. She is the Chariot that he rides and within that cup is fate. the vehicle of death. but I can hear nothing but scraping and chatter. and she removes her garment for they are Lovers and this is the true sacrament of marriage. 1+1+2 = 4. toward the dark tower which cannot stand.'. 6.O. Pisces. (Turner." There is no more vision and no more voice. The first rules over Carthage. 2.A. Calvary." And there is an earthquake and a spewing forth of flame and smoke and lava. The analysis of INRI would seem to substitute the meaning of the Hebrew letters for the values of the Greek. will easily discern them though. 8. More anon.e.T. in love taboo. The last is a traditional cabalistic explanation for early biblical history in the Zohar and elsewhere. There is probably more here as the first is a reference to the Punic wars where Rome defeated Carthage which would ultimately lead to their hegemony over the Levant. Kaiser. Gehenna in traditional readings of the scriptures. See also Liber 860: The Prologue regarding the Great Obligation. These are the voices of the three governors of the aire apparently. Caesar etc.) therefore Tzaddi as star and not star. Liber 777: CLXXXVII: 0.burnt away. . There are several Mysteries here that it is not appropriate to reveal to the profane. But her daughter is the bride of her own brother. This is an allusion to Math 27:35. Analysis ZEN 1. The first is a play on Christ words on the cross (Luke 23) which like the Romans plays so large a part in this vision. A voice: "And they said let us go build us a Tower. and degrees in O. And they go forth as a Knight and his lady. i. Christ and the disciples as fishers of men (cf. There is a method implied by which one can explore the keys without recourse to the Watchtowers. Emperor (Tzar. 4. the typical graven image that graces many Christian automobiles and the Southern Fishes is probably an allusion to Fomalhaut as the ayanamsa for the age of Aquarius. This shows how the Tablet of Union binds and rules the watchtowers. 1+1+3 & 1+2+2 = 5 and so forth to 6+6+6 = 18.'. The place is the valley of Hinon. And the voice again: "Therefore is the name of it called Babel. Z here shows Zain as Jupiter but reflects Jove as ruler. 3. The Widow is E as Heh. Those of certain grades in A. Golgotha. 7. Here are the elements as both curses and blessing. the second over Paradise and the Edom. Luke 32:34. Babalon who rides upon the Beast. 5. Elizabethan Magic 168). And all comes crumbling down and is darkness. For instance 1+1+1 = 3. For with three dice the total value can only be between 3 and 18. 11. III. (Crowleys vision and voice . XXI. XX. John 19:23. XIII. the aethyr appears empty. Kelly's visions of the Watchtowers for this color scheme (T&FR 168-173. as it contains so many elements of biblic traditions that obviously is connected to the energies he is presented. VI. Hearts = Cups. XVII. Aces & Court cards AS AC AD AW Trumps I.9. To 14. IV. James Enochian Magic xi. Spirit is of course air and breathe in their purest forms. the current will unveil itself by symbols. VIII. and if there have been no aquaintance with this before. When an aethyr is understood and duly integrated. As there are 22 Trumps and only 20 squares on the Tablet of Union there are two overlaps (at least) but as will be seen these are rather obvious in practice./ X. VII. I did the Zen aethyr in 93/94 and I recall that I was told to forget everything that I read. the symbols works upon one. In order that one shall perceive the current clear and directly. IX. and folds out misunderstandings./ XVIII. 13. than his bibliotic narratry. This is simply the Thoth deck court attributions correlated to the Golden Spirit Tablet attributions. XV. I am sorry (eh. but its not. Wands = Clubs 12. XI. 10. Diamonds = Disks. Its filled with the clear and unambigous energy that it was the first time. 187-8). PeS PeC PeD PeW QnS QnC QnD QnW PsS PsC PsD PsW KtS KtC KtD KtW 93 Hi Paul.not really) that I simply cannot get myself to study his text in depth. there is some default mode that turns out if not anything else is requested: The names used. . XIX.i assumed) The . II. Spades = Swords.but he give no other clues to what kind of energies. The symbols are mediators between us and ideal frequenzies. presents ways and motives that can help one in raising oneself within that particular reality. Cf. XIV. By careful reading here a direct correlation of the Aces and Court cards (and thus the squares of the Tablet of Union) with the Trumps can be established. calls the energies connected with the name. XVI. aspirate etc. 0. On aethyr scrying as every other kind of scrying. V. XII. Hi Paul. It may be that the grail thing and the clubstuff have some similiarities to my Nut and Geb vision. Who would guess so from Jones report? But I recognize his account for the fire of the damned. but within enochian context in the whole aethyr. and its usually just too powerful to walk around with. So it would fit that his visions have a christian overtone to them. spine power: The personal Pyramid. It came afterwards as the backfire! Its perfectly logic. He was trying to explain in the group one day how christianity and AL tie in. Some ordinary people backed off as hit by some electric device when they came within my aura after this ritual. I do not know David. From there. I felt the fire was much directed to the body of light that contained the lower or maybe petty emotions. Thats what I consider to be its essence. The phallos of Geb raised towards heavens. but if it has. Its within the mental body. The pyramid and its spine and its essence that was kept in a crystal ball within the pyramid. It becomes very hard to turn off and get to sleep when there is a monster inside that just keeps on willing. If you get initiated in an ideal frequenzy and wants to integrate this and stick to it. 93 It seems certain that the Christist undercurrent in the text is indicative of something not so wholesome. 93 I tend to agree with you. and that again corresponds to the personal spine. it's known facts strewn in with gobbledy-gook and outright fallacies. you will have to remove the obstacles. Everyday. And I would combine this with his chaotic personality as further evidence of the affect of his work. but in speaking with him a little I did find out that he is Episcapalian Christian.experience was then also very different from his. Those powers are amazing and too powerful. I don't see that he's talking to any legitimate spirit at all. This also shows up in the text. I at least became very detached to a serie of previous obsessions and much else. My conclusion upon skimming the text of Jones again is that he is not finished yet of unfolding its reality. And it's even interesting that nothing comes in Enochian. I did a little prayer this autumn two months ago on that theme and got some of that powers and I had the first autumn in years where I have not been freezing. The fire kept on aching for a year. corresponds to the spine or axis of the pyramid. 93/93 pj .. while in other aethyrs I experienced similar things. I was confronted by the story of Nut and Geb. 93/93 John Hi John & Runar. It wasnt presented to me in the vision of the aethyr as everything was just ideal therein. he can be the one to say so. kinda learn the layout of the land. the message entitled: Porthole Method. And it's these same people (Jones and crew) that create these fantasias for themselves.cf. . the symbols works upon one.not really) that I simply cannot get myself to study his text in depth.no> wrote: I am sorry (eh. The symbols are mediators between us and ideal frequencies. The fact that as a current.. Its filled with the clear and unambigous energy that it was the first time.. and folds out misunderstandings. It takes Mother's theory on the cells a step further and I think has some potential significance for the development of the Gnostic Mass. but its not. than his bibliotic narratry. 93 Runar Karlsen <karl24@start. the aethyr appears empty.seems a way to program the different mannas for a fuller experience of the particular Aethyr being worked with. pj: Interesting. this ties in with the electro-magnetic idea that I mentioned above. pj: John notes Jones' Christist background... Runar: When an aethyr is understood and duly integrated.. presents ways and motives that can help one in raising oneself within that particular reality. Crowley had some difficulty getting to higher Aethyrs as he had to wait for certain Initiations and he was told so by the Entities.. it produces symbols in the mind.Hi Runar. In order that one shall perceive the current clear and directly. perhaps even electro-magnetic. pj: It seems to me like this would be an intelligent first-step into an Aethyr. Yet I find an interesting conundrum in observing that a few talking on the Enochian lists seem to skry any Aethyr without concern for the level of Initiation the Aethyr requires and even to the point where they think they've traversed the Aethyr. are swimming in. there is some default mode that turns out if not anything else is requested: The names used. . This is further evidence of the nature of daemons they are playing with. the current will unveil itself by symbols.. calls the energies connected with the name. as it contains so many elements of biblic traditions that obviously is connected to the energies he is presented.an old aeonic current that he and even these other miscreants that control Thelemic discussion on the web. Runar: Aethyr scrying as every other kind of scrying. The net result of their behavior is that they suppress discussion on the web and threaten the dignity of everyone around them. and if there have been no aquaintance with this before. I think there's something profoundly related to this in the article I forwarded to this community the other day.but he give no other clues to what kind of energies.. in other words. Some ordinary people backed off as hit by some electric device when they came within my aura after this ritual. And I even think this is worth presenting on your site that others might benefit from this unique work.I'd love to see your diary entries on this. I did a little prayer this autumn two months ago on that theme and got some of that powers and I had the first autumn in years where I have not been freezing. while in other aethyrs I experienced similar things. 93/93 pj In a message dated 12/09/2002 22:28:44PM. (Crowleys vision and voice ... and its usually just too powerful to walk around with. I felt the fire was much directed to the body of light that contained the lower or maybe petty emotions. Runar: I was confronted by the story of Nut and Geb. Runar: Thats what I consider to be its essence. It wasnt presented to me in the vision of the aethyr as everything was just ideal therein. It came afterwards as the backfire! Its perfectly logic. we have further evidence of Jones' problem. But your experience of this and the way you handled what you were experience also speaks to this cell experience and adds a larger dimension to your overall experience. and that again corresponds to the personal spine. you will have to remove the obstacles. The pyramid and its spine and its essence that was kept in a crystal ball within the pyramid.but what would you target as physical evidence of a spine in the Pyramids? Runar: Its within the mental body. If you get initiated in an ideal frequenzy and wants to integrate this and stick to it. spine power: The personal Pyramid. I at least became very detached to a serie of previous obsessions and much else. It becomes very hard to turn off and get to sleep when there is a monster inside that just keeps on willing.Runar: I did the Zen aethyr in 93/94 and I recall that I was told to forget everything that I read. zagreus656@yahoo. With this in mind. corresponds to the spine or axis of the pyramid. Those powers are amazing and too powerful.. The phallos of Geb raised towards heavens. I'd love to hear more about this in detail.i assumed) The experience was then also very different from his. but within enochian context in the whole aethyr. pj: This sounds fascinating.. pj: I think this is fascinating work. pj: The "backfire" in its seemingly unescapable nature. The fire kept on aching for a year. I think you would enjoy reading Satprem's 'Life of the Cells' in corollation with this... pj: That seems interesting. Who would guess so from Jones report? But I recognize his account for the fire of the damned. establish your own relationship with the current in light of the nature of your Initiation. Everyday. certainly shows more why the Aethyr work has to be done very carefully and should not be entered into without the proper Initiatory preparation.com writes: . Runar: You know Christist might not be the right term It is said that Yeshua Bar Yosef cast out demons. but is passed on to some cartoonic dreamland on the lower levels of subconscious suburbia. Wise words You might be on the same side with the same goals or results? Are you reallythen on Opposite sides because you cannot agree (More interesting was Yeshua bar yosef a Chaos magician casting out Demons by the Use of the Tetragammeron the Holy Name of G-d>( Naming can be a powerful thing) If so he had a school and passed this down to His inner circle of 5 (Plus a Master (6 Most interesting no? So what would happen if say instead of the Name your using for something or a Ritual you changed it to say the Name of G-d Would he be invoked (Its an interesting idea) If he would raise fromthe Dead (Like LAzarus) Might not he also show his power in smaller ways If called upon. But I have seen the attempts and heard about more. yes. Even if it might not be what they would call the standard way? Regards johnmoon3717@aol. The most typical failure is that one makes the call and doesnt find the aethyr. not the echoes of that person. This have also been my policy in the later aethyr visits. so that one can create a new and averse type of results is actually very difficult. so that the symbols that unfolds is also partly that of the individual.meaning they would only pass on the sincere and essential. To actually feign or in other way mistreat the aethyr intelligences. But they do defend themselves by natural means. symbols and correspondences needed to create a rite. Solomon had control of Demons His throne said to be theplace where some were captured and Held In fact it seems to be rather well known The Apostles come bask and tell Jesus Hey there are others out there casttingout demons in your name and healing Jesus say Let them alone if they are not against us they are for us. (Many says it was well deserved. and . Its hard to see the legitimate spirit in his report. who claimed that he was mugged and tortured by the governors of Tex. or at least it looks like a scrapbook containing all the recipients. If the Hga of the candidate belongs to a certain pantheon or culture. to expand on the symbols given. there is bound to be visits and clues to that in the visions.com Hi again and 93 ! I also should have said that the initiations in the aethyrs are very personalized.<< This is further evidence of the nature of daemons they are playing with. I have heard things like " I wasnt allowed to get inside before I rejected my ironic attitude" . and I have felt the illwill directed towards the aethyrs for the last decade. While the most hostile rejection I have heard about was that of one of the dupes of a real Black Brother. but the text seems to outline a new ritual. No explanations from him.. stopped after having done two. I will probably study them.? Because we. John: Agreed. If he post more of his records. . The net result of their behavior is that they suppress discussion on the web and threaten the dignity of everyone around them.A.. Jones is mixing 2 currents and basically feels that Thelema manifests the message of christianity. o. than of the aethyrs. are swimming in. What I mean to say is that the reports of Jones is not the example of failure of interaction. as he used to beat his girlfriend a.) Most people that were under the spell of that Black brother failed utterly in trying to reach the aethyrs.an old aeonic current that he and even these other miscreants that control Thelemic discussion on the web. He has preconceived expectations. The majority of these people have supposedly found their truths and their opinions and if anyone disagrees with them they are like a pack of jackyls. If one scrys on the Aethys with preconceived expectations. Hence the results of his scrying tie in with that of Revelations because deep down he feels that is the truth. is normally the target? Or those of us that are a part of the A. but that so far it tells more about him. Have you noticed that the A.the logical execution of that aethyrs powers of Karma and Justice.A. I left all groups with the exception of this one.’. even now with people like Jones and company they are supposedly able to do this.’. 93 93 Runar Hi Paul. and then a possibility to understand what he interacts with. This is further evidence of the nature of daemons they are playing with. PJ: Crowley had some difficulty getting to higher Aethyrs as he had to wait for certain Initiations and he was told so by the Entities.’. And he himself. as individuals do not buy into their group ideals we are the enemy. It is my opinion that they are not truly scrying them but in a way manifesting through their own selves what they think is the truth. That is why these Aethyrs are having such a christist message. 93 pj: John notes Jones' Christist background.’. Yet. I feel that the results will be tainted and the results are what the person truly wants to see. John: Agreed. I have been in various e-groups for the past few yeara and there is one thing I have found. And it's these same people (Jones and crew) that create these fantasias for themselves. I believe it was only after reacher 8=3 that he was able to scry the remaining Aethyrs. I believe it was only the 30th and 29th Aethyrs that Crowley was able to scry until he reached a specific level of attainment. as I then get a better chance to interprete his personal symbolics. One thing in particular has interested me. Jones has made up his mind about what is what and thinks he has uncovered all truths and if anyone does not agree with him totally he attacks them. the are idiots and full of shite to him. His ideas on masonry are the only ones that are correct and so on and if anyone sees anything differently. Meanwhile I am the so-called brunt of their humor. The only time he did not bash my posts was when I disagreed with Scorpius but as soon as my posts were anything pertaining to Thelema. etc he went on the attack mode.'.. dreams. are the only ones that are correct. 93/93 John Hi JohnMoon. 93 ***And I would combine this with his chaotic personality as further evidence of the affect of his work.A. Do you think I'm the only one they've .. Hundreds and hundreds are on the lists..so it seems that your assessment of the situation misses a few points..*** And how. regardless of what they are. When I met David Jones he was very polite to me as I was in the attack mode with Scorpius and he despises Ron. I then asked him why he was always attacking you and making things up about you.he's making pacts with them. And the entities I encounter will have no problem helping me along with my christist beliefs. Damn and how. 93/93 John Hi Paul.If I have a deep seated set of spiritual beliefs. I was never rude to him and actually quite cordial to him in all of my emails and posts. 93 I think there's more than disagreement happening here. or whatever despite their being false. David Jones isn't casting out demons.. And for that matter. But even if you disagreed with that assessment. at some point they will manifest in visions. the behavior of the man betrays much. His ideas of the OTO are the only ones that are correct. Note that he and a few others have basically suppressed all communication on the web in Thelemic circles. Yet when someone attacks him back he complains that people only want to attack and that they are incapable of a propper debate. After that he began to attack me in the community over minor things such as the spelling of magick and so on and so forth. His ideas on the A. And you saw first-hand over the summer how ardent these three or four idiots can be. He has placed himself on a pedastal and throne of the all knowing and if anyone sees it differently he attacks them. For example he made the comment that you claimed to be 9=2 and I said he was incorrect and you were 2=9.. Really petty things. He emailed me a few times and was very polite.but only three or four dare even speak.'. So in a sense he was ganging up on Ron. .'.especially considering the fact that all his other publishing efforts have been nothing but regurgitations of stuff already published by others.! 93/93 pj Hi John. is that anyone who claims to be in the A.'.. IV and then inside that. 93 You make an interesting point here..... 93/93 pj Hi John.. So by making the claim to A..A.look at the actions of these miscreants. And those quality people that might like to share the gems of their hard work have been effectively silenced. However..'.A. Note that the Caliphate stance on the A. for many years has been that it did not exist.A.. And they are relentless. the Caliphate instruction on the A..the feet don't lie. the transcription tells more about David and may even be but the beginning of a deeper exploration of the Aethyr. And considering with his several years on the net and even more years in Thelema.and yes. So you could imagine my great surprise when I first heard they were putting out an Equinox Vol..I suspect there's not too much more behind it.others have learned to keep their mouths shut in order to avoid the discomfort that these people bring.'... They're harrassment knows no limit. Discussion on the net in Thelemic circles has gone nowhere because of these characters. I see that someone that has developed such abilities as to be able to travel such an Aethyr as being of a certain accomplishment that David's character proves he has not.done this to? Even if that were true.. in front of any Caliphate member is to invite discord by the very seeds the Caliphate has sewn. Of course. I take peoples words with a grain of salt. And so I see the fanciful imaginings of a creative (albeit twisted) mind.'.. claiming they were A.it seems I have another trophy sitting at the FedEx office waiting for me. the Aethyr or those beings of the Aethyr can take care of themselves. This shows you the spiritual egregore that these miscreants are riding..'. .'. 93/93 pj Hi Runar..but that's another matter..'. Yes.not a skrying experience at all.A. it doesn't seem that the Caliphate ever bothered to read the Oath forms..'. And even today. Your assessment seems wholly accurate. proves that they are not by making the claim. 93 I agree with you on both counts.that this is the first he's published of any of this work.'.A. you wrote: >pj: John notes Jones' Christist background..an old aeonic current that he and even these other miscreants that control Thelemic discussion on the web.. This is further evidence of the nature of daemons they are playing with.is capable of dropping his pants and taking a shit.. Do you think I'm the only one they've done this to? Even if that were true.93 Of course. I dont forget how the Thelema-93 list were turned into a mountain of . [email protected] less an order that he has stolen money from to support a drug habit. Hundreds and hundreds are on the lists.. >> Oh I do not disagree with that its the terminology. et regards [email protected] writes: << Note that he and a few others have basically suppressed all communication on the web in Thelemic circles. The net result of their behavior is that they suppress discussion on the web and threaten the dignity of everyone around them.but only three or four dare even speak. It appears that the Old and New Testament Prophets did their thing with Demons. And you saw first-hand over the summer how ardent these three or four idiots can be. note that Jones is a man that on a stage in front of a live audience. Kinda makes you go: 93/93 pj hmmmm.com From: Runar At 20:28 09.02 -0800. are swimming in.... In a message dated 12/11/2002 6:27:24AM.. What kind of credibility can you give to someone with this behavior pattern? And why would anyone even want to associate with this type of character?..others have learned to keep their mouths shut in order to avoid the discomfort that these people bring.. Now technically it is Shaitan thatis the ally of Demons So I would think that Satanic or Demonic would be a better term than Christist Now there is One Church that Teaches (I believe the LDS) That Satan and Christ were the same (Or syzgys of the same) But of course you cant rally depend on the Mormon church to make much sense of things (He that got info from Moriah) On the other hand maybe JOseph SMith had his own personla HGA( Never thought of that) Probably needs to be addressed at some point (Might be a connection) However I would say Satanic or Demonic would be a better term than ChrististPerhaps even Machiavellian Diabolic Etc...still puts him in a position of authority...12. there is some default >mode that turns out if not anything else is requested: The names used. which I regard as the some of the most valuable system ever.formally or nonformally. (I learnt by this a far different lesson. I cant stop them. > >Yet I find an interesting conundrum in observing that a few talking on the Enochian lists seem to skry any Aethyr without concern for the level of Initiation the Aethyr requires and even to the point where they think they've traversed the Aethyr. Ben Rowe started a campaigne on the enochian e-mail list to show that the path of Crowley was utterly wrong and the results came in because of preconceived expectations. A group that successfully gathers to practise and to collect information and experiences about the events will undoubtly become a beacon of the world. it produces symbols in the mind.. (He succeeded in his attempts of not antromorphizing and ended with a view un-human. but plausible on some levels. The point that makes the Crowley approach to the aethyrs to the most valuable of all is that the call of the aethyrs is a complete set of rituals to all levels along the tree of life. >Runar: >Aethyr scrying as every other kind of scrying.. and I shouldnt waste my time trying to either.kinda learn the layout of the land. As herein its possible to take for granted the respect and interest for initiation along systems as Tree of life. His view were heard as he wrote a lot. : ) In order to defend the tradition set forth by Crowley. and it will be possible to spend the time on whats valuable and not just defense. the current will unveil itself by symbols. Today i have given up trying argue for the Crowley method as the only one. The fact that as a current. perhaps even electro-magnetic. >calls the energies connected with the name. I think its wise to stick to groups of AA students . How even the pretentious and serious eventually lifted their masks and just ceased to come with arguments against the sane and gave up everything for a cheap mock. This explanation was pointing at their function within the enochian system for the entities therein.. you have to repeat yourself : ) It has been my impression that few really tries to follow ACs path. If you want to be influental on the web.seems a way to program the different mannas for a fuller experience of the particular Aethyr being worked with. And what more. All mason orders of the world cannot claim to have such a thing. its not secret. as the aethyrs contains rooms (metaphorically speaking) that contains options of specializing and talents (siddhis) that is easily passed by many as they couldnt possibly think that such . and come up with an explanation of whats their function. and if there have been no >aquaintance with this before.monkeys. If people truly wants to mess things up.. > >pj: It seems to me like this would be an intelligent first-step into an Aethyr. Also as my companion Dean Hildebrandt has gone up and down the aethyrs in his way. Yes but this is due to the general diversion on the understanding on what are the aethyrs for. that is different. I think there's something profoundly related to this in the article I forwarded to this community the other day.in other words.. > >Runar: > >I was confronted by the story of Nut and Geb. It takes Mother's theory on the cells a step further and I think has some potential significance for the development of the Gnostic Mass. and that again corresponds to the personal spine. Those powers are amazing and too powerful. Yes I read the porthole post and found it interesting. >Runar: >When an aethyr is understood and duly integrated. > >pj: This sounds fascinating. The symbols are mediators between us and ideal frequencies. >at seems interesting. and in that it could be the symbol of the Oak as well. and its usually just too powerful to walk around with. >but within enochian context in the whole aethyr. > >pj: Interesting. The pyramid and its spine and its essence that was kept in a crystal ball within the pyramid. I do believe that it is this point that have made the attacks against the AC approach so vehement. > . it will change the spiritual climate of the world.. presents ways and motives that can help one in raising oneself within that particular reality.but what would you target as physical >evidence of a spine in the Pyramids? Nothing particular .its all symbolic. corresponds to the spine or axis of the pyramid. the symbols works upon one. The phallos of Geb raised towards heavens.a thing was possible. and folds out misunderstandings.. establish your own relationship >with the current in light of the nature of your Initiation. >Runar: > >Its within >the mental body. I did a little prayer this autumn two months ago on that theme and got some of that powers and I had the first autumn in years where I have not been freezing... this ties in with the electro-magnetic idea that I >mentioned above. A group that collects information will be able to pass on specialities and hardcore methods. Its filled with the clear and unambigous energy that it was the first time. but its not. In order that one shall perceive the current clear and directly. the aethyr appears empty. Because if such a thing is done.cf. the message entitled: Porthole Method.. but I know nothing yet of those mithocondrias. Some ordinary people backed off as hit by some electric device when they came within my aura after this ritual. It becomes very hard to turn off and get to sleep when there is a monster inside that just keeps on willing. . I think you would enjoy reading Satprem's 'Life of the Cells' in corollation with this. Hi Runar.one day . . It becomes very hard to turn off and get to sleep when there is a monster inside that just keeps on willing. and that again corresponds to the personal spine. Everyday. Who would guess so from Jones report? >But I recognize his account for the fire of the damned. And I even think this is worth presenting on your site that others might benefit from this unique work. I'd love to hear more about this in detail.. you will have to remove the obstacles.I'd love to see your diary entries on this. It wasnt presented to me in the vision of the aethyr as everything was just ideal therein. I did a little prayer this autumn two months ago on that theme and got some of that powers and I had the first autumn in years where I have not been freezing. Those powers are amazing and too powerful. Some ordinary people backed off as hit by some electric device when they came within my aura after this ritual. The fire kept on aching for a year. I at least became very detached to a serie of previous obsessions and much else. > >pj: The "backfire" in its seemingly unescapable nature. The phallos of Geb raised towards heavens. >Runar: >Thats what I consider to be its essence. and its usually just too powerful to walk around with. The pyramid and its spine and its essence that was kept in a crystal ball within the pyramid. 93 you wrote: I did the Zen aethyr in 93/94 and I recall that I was told to forget everything that I read. corresponds to the spine or axis of the pyramid. With this in mind. I was confronted by the story of Nut and Geb. 93 93 93 Runar. I felt the fire was much directed to the body of light that contained the lower or maybe petty emotions. we have further evidence of Jones' problem.i assumed) The experience was then also very different from his. It came afterwards as the backfire! Its perfectly logic. while in other aethyrs I experienced similar things.>pj: I think this is fascinating work. but within enochian context in the whole aethyr. I just havent got to it yet. (Crowleys vision and voice . But your experience of this and the way you handled what you were experience also speaks to this cell experience and adds a larger dimension to your overall experience. Coming . Its been the plan all the time. certainly shows more why the Aethyr work has to be done very carefully and should not be entered into without the proper Initiatory preparation. If you get initiated in an ideal frequenzy and wants to integrate this and stick to it. Its within the mental body.some year. spine power: The personal Pyramid. lol). Who would guess so from Jones report? But I recognize his account for the fire of the damned..Thats what I consider to be its essence. you will have to remove the obstacles. it was simply the other tribe's god. well. experience. Everyday.though the Thelemic current is one important expression of it.. It wasnt presented to me in the vision of the aethyr as everything was just ideal therein. I at least became very detached to a serie of previous obsessions and much else. if they had been Christian or around Christian upbringing in the past. There are other . >From a certain viewpoint. 93 For a different take on Shaitan. though the egregore may have a broader theme.I have thought of his work as the result of his H. Smith's and Jones' experiences are not all that dissimilar.or with anyone else. see this deity in the light of Pan and the fact that to the Jews. Regarding Joseph Smith. This is the plane of the Tower Atu (as I considered it a bit further). But as Runar has suggested to me in the past. The fire kept on aching for a year. So you've a bit of apples and oranges with Shaitan and Satan.. And though Satan is the modern word derived from Shaitan and is connected with a host of other names.. still. Then look into what Shaitan actually was and represented and you will have found yourself within a paradigm that is outside the Manichaen philosophy that ran through European thought. I felt the fire was much directed to the body of light that contained the lower or maybe petty emotions.. And note the 'Eye' in the Tower Atu. who is but Prometheus in the 'other tribe'. showing the force of revelation and overseeing it. If you get initiated in an ideal frequenzy and wants to integrate this and stick to it.... It came afterwards as the backfire! Its perfectly logic.G. And both are unconnected with that 'Eye'.A. would this energy (under many names and forms) have anything to do with obsessive-compulsive disorder? 93 Cammy Hi All. 93 Jones' experiences with skrying having a Christian theme makes sense if he is indeed Christian. the egregore that has become 'Satanic' is a completely different current and incompatible with the 'Shaitanic' (to hopefully not coin a phrase there..and yet other names of uncertain origin (at least by me. spine power: The personal Pyramid.lol).. such as Lucifer. 93 Cammy Hi JohnMoon.. And that force is not strictly of the Thelemic current. prophetic experiences often happen on the plane that connects Hod and Netzach.. and when it's clear that they are the forces that are speaking to the Operator of a skrying session. The fight is but a death throe on their part.. these 'Christist' egregores.expressions. yet dying current. And it will become stronger as the old current gets weaker and until it ultimately dies out. he was the Gnostic Avatar creating an egregore that was quickly perverted by the Roman church.do so. we have not only evidence of perversion in the product of the work. Yet I've learned through you and through my studies in this past year....that certain clarity that accompanies this. There's a big difference between Apollon of Tyana and Jesus.. .. Remember.. And the insanity this all brought to me as I did the work of the Daggar.it's been a rough ride. Those demiurgic perversions.. I see part of my Ordeal of Choronzon coming by way of these guys this past year..in that sense.there's no anthropomorphization of the Christ and Jesus was originally a Gnostic metaphor for the ideal initiate. There's a big difference between Yeshua bar Joseph and Jesus.. More importantly.. Indeed Phosphoros runs from almost the beginning and I can tell you of incidents before he even came along. So those not harmonious with this current. How even the pretentious and serious eventually lifted their masks and just ceased to come with arguments against the sane and gave up everything for a cheap mock.and when I was still with HOOR. but an incredibly rewarding one. And to turn away from the current now... though it has a seed being planted..but we see a dupe of the Black Lodge at work. pj: Doesn't this just sound like the kind of behavior Choronzon would produce? Speaking as a Zelator.. that there are elements of the old aeon that remain important in this aeon as they pertain to the larger force of time.. 93 You wrote: I dont forget how the Thelema-93 list were turned into a mountain of monkeys.a weakling infant. Thelema is but a babe.. the old current is still the strong and dominant one. which all come under one potently huge and very powerful..and important for all that those few who do. is important for some.my guestimate is by 2500ev. But that is not for some time to come.becoming a tool for the Black Brotherhood. when present in any magickal experience.. 93/93 pj Hi Runar.. It has not force of power.... But it no longer has the throne.... It is no longer connected to the 'Light'.the Manifestation. it is far easier to get this energy than it is to get to something more genuine. but plausible on some levels.despite any talent he may have.T.'. They knew that Motta had a legitimate claim to the Praemonstrance of the A. he then rejects the truth outright. Ben Rowe started a campaigne on the enochian e-mail list to show that the path of Crowley was utterly wrong and the results came in because of preconceived expectations. you have to repeat yourself : ) pj: At the very beginning of his work. which I regard as the some of the most valuable system ever. pj: Crowley's method is the "only one" insofaras it is 'the' scientific method and not some romantic.. This shows a dysfunctional Ruach right from the start. Runar: Also as my companion Dean Hildebrandt has gone up and down the aethyrs in his way. they had to divorce themselves from the .is the traditional method of other Philosophers of the Art. I cant stop them. that is different. creative venture. and I shouldnt waste my time trying to either. Crowley's method is Dee&Kelly's method. If people truly wants to mess things up. Runar: It has been my impression that few really tries to follow ACs path. pj: This important aspect was tossed away by the Caliphate in the 1984ev maneuverings that led to the trial. : ) pj: I like that Dean came up with his Aeonic theory in connection with the Tree-of-Life. and it will be possible to spend the time on whats valuable and not just defense. It shows that he's coming up with new information And for that matter.A. they would have to admit their illegitimacy as Motta never approved of their formulation..'.Runar: Yes but this is due to the general diversion on the understanding on what are the aethyrs for. and come up with an explanation of whats their function. And he goes on a Choronzic campaign of obfuscation. (He succeeded in his attempts of not antromorphizing and ended with a view un-human. So in claiming to be 'the' O.formally or nonformally. there's a lot of investigation into cataloguing unresearched parts of the Enochian Universe.. Runar: In order to defend the tradition set forth by Crowley. If you want to be influental on the web.O. As herein its possible to take for granted the respect and interest for initiation along systems as Tree of life.. Today i have given up trying argue for the Crowley method as the only one. His view were heard as he wrote a lot. I think its wise to stick to groups of AA students . There's no scientific mind at all when he rejects sound evidence so vehemently.. (I learnt by this a far different lesson. And if that was weighed into their founding. This explanation was pointing at their function within the enochian system for the entities therein. And while not necessarily prophetic. very valuable work. .and everybody in them that can get laid or consume a drug has their own holy book to impress us with.'. pj: The mitochondria is outside the nucleus in both ova and sperm cells. I do believe that it is this point that have made the attacks against the AC approach so vehement.. but I know nothing yet of those mithocondrias. as the aethyrs contains rooms (metaphorically speaking) that contains options of specializing and talents (siddhis) that is easily passed by many as they couldnt possibly think that such a thing was possible.of the earth's evolution into a new nature. Because if such a thing is done.of our evolution into a new species. A group that collects information will be able to pass on specialities and hardcore methods. pj: With the old aeon in its death throes.. spurious orders pop up like popcorn in a corn popper.. they have been trying to claim themselves to be of Motta lineage? But no magickal order can function in a wholesome fashion without the Adepts and indeed the Secret Chiefs overseeing development. A group that successfully gathers to practise and to collect information and experiences about the events will undoubtly become a beacon of the world. it will do all it can to attack the Throne of Ra in an ill-fated attempt to regain its seat. for the Christist egregore.the actual seat was considered the Womb of Isis. that corresponds with the war here on earth.. Runar: The point that makes the Crowley approach to the aethyrs to the most valuable of all is that the call of the aethyrs is a complete set of rituals to all levels along the tree of life... However. only the mitochondria of the mother is transmitted to the child.. This is the real battle in the spiritual. Isn't it interesting that recently... the only time that the Pharoah was considered Pharoah was when physically sitting on the throne..even before it's been able to well-establish it..the target for the demiurge..and to intefere with the willed destiny of our race and inherent in the very fabric of our being..an Avatar and Prophet.. its not secret.non-human (or more fully evolved human) a 'freak show' or abomination to that force that wants to see us as we were.. Runar: Yes I read the porthole post and found it interesting... Now. And what more..'.. And with the Caliphate establishing such a strong egregore that betrays this.. All mason orders of the world cannot claim to have such a thing.both representing the turmoil of Babalon in her labor pains. they've brought disarray to the 93 Current. This is why the Pharoah mated with his sister in order to continue the bloodline of the Throne of Horus. 93/93 pj ..and why the throne itself.A.Mother of Abomination. Indeed.. And the current is on a general trend of losing its integrity.A. Crowley is the Mage in Ra's court. it will change the spiritual climate of the world.. But That's to be expected by persons writing after the fact (who were not eye witnesses) Rather by word or mouth.( Shrug) So Also you might name a Brother Yaakov( In hopes that the older brother might be the Patriarch of his family You wouldn't name him Yosef because you In Aramaic didn't name children the same name as their father (In the Judaic System) But you might name them for The Patriarch (Jacob) who was carried out of Egypt.( Under Rome) So I dont buy a mythical Yeshua Bar Yosef. But then who was Moses Protege'? Eh? Joshua . zagreus656@yahoo. If Thelma was passed by word of Mouth for say 15 years before anyone wrote the facts down...( JA vol) So Joshua( YSHW) Is transliterated to Jesus.>> Well.. And was he was not exactly a Popular guy (Merely feared because of his Knowledge) And there are several Members of that (linage you might say) That attempted to Preserve the accurate textual information. Now what the Catholic Church did (second Century and Then Third is a Shame) especially the Perpetual virginity stuff and MArianism) On the other hand they also preserved the ancient texts (And Jerome and Others) not in the PApal loop translated. there's much history there are some substantial misunderstandings of what occurred. and Joshua who led them out of Egypt. YSHW Is entirely logical. he was the Gnostic Avatar creating an egregore that was quickly perverted by the Roman church. And shed light on what occurred for instance a lot of Christians think the Spirit descended in the form of a Dove on Yeshua (It never says .In a message dated 12/11/2002 19:54:54PM. There would be substantial differences in what Crowley said. Thinking that there was a possibility of success (for Israel) when there was not. historical and Definitely Jewish (Joshua) In fact you might consider that because Joshua the (Original) was his namesake< Maybe The Early YSHW(Joshua) Inspired him(Historical Jesus) to follow in the Historical footsteps.com writes: << Jesus. Now presume for a Moment That You were naming a Child And dedicating him to the Lord( God) Yahweh And you wanted that Child to Be dedicates(Say a NAzerite) Samson is unlucky He failed and was blinded So What would you call him? Now again you cannot name him Moses But maybe you could name him Joshua (Yshua) which Is Aramaic transliterate into English down the Line Jesus (Iesu) with the addition of the Anglo Saxon J..(Some what 30 years Later) some movement to last that long eh (Must have been Grass roots and very Popular in spite of the roman attempt to squelch it) Such a dedicated bunch would name children after Heroes of the Old Testament.in that sense. lets see what would you call the perfect Initiate in the Judaic system? Or who would you name a child that you wanted to be the perfect initiate.. If they were really diabolical they would have had ONE Gospel story (No decension)\Instead they Have 4( Plenty of Discussion there) So in a Way Your right But youcant throw out the Baby with the Bath water.( Or a group of Children) Consider You couldn't call him Moses.( Especially if you happened to be Sicarri yourself( As MAriam/ Yosef might have been) he same Crazed bunch that committed Suicide At Masada.there's no anthropomorphization of the Christ and Jesus was originally a Gnostic metaphor for the ideal initiate. Youhave to sift through the trash to getto the Historical reality. which is good. Essentially.. they have put Liber Librae (originally a Golden Dawn document) before AL and I'll quote from Librae: "In true religion there is no sect. therefore take heed that thou blaspheme not the name by which another knoweth his God. As you pointed out its young/ On the other hand Doing so is interesting/ Regards johnmoon3717@aol. Ask and ye shall have! Seek. Crowley tried to prevent this in his own way by making any appeal to interpretation be an appeal to his writings. for if thou do this thing in Jupiter thou wilt blaspheme YHVH and in Osiris YChShVCh." But let's appeal to AL directly: . 93 What stands out for me in what you say is the misreading of text and the development of doctrine based on that misreading.this) It says like a dove/( Quite a difference) In other words most of the mistakes are merely misreading of the text Much like you would expect if someone misread the Lieber AL or other texts If they said Something you knew to be in error? You'd point it out but not abandon the text itself (Accurately read and interpreted) But another good point is that this is more difficult after 2000 years This is why we study early texts and Compare in the original Language to detect errors and Mistranslation (done through no evil intent) Just done in error.( comparing Say the Dead sea Scrolls) to the Old Testament and the Greek and Other Aramaic to the Translations to determine how many errors occurred over two thousand years In a sense You lucky you dont have to that in order to determine the truth. and it shall be opened unto you!"<o:p></o:p> They have used this to validate the Christist current as being compatible with AL and my denunciation of the desert religions as a denunciation of the "true god".com Hi JohnMoon. Your "dove descending" and "as a dove" metaphor is all too common an error that occurs by various sages in all traditions that rely on scripture. Here is where old Harry made a salient point. is that these 'psychic' individuals are seeing what they want to see and making scripture fit their vision. They fall into the age-old trap: "If my religion is the true religion. An easier way to say this. That is the basic problem. But the attempt was more a vanity on his part. and ye shall find! Knock.ultimately concluding that I am an evil that needs to be eradicated. The perfect example is clearly seen in the actions taken by those that have disagreed with my interpretation of AL. Note that even those (Caliphate people) who espouse this specifically. and if you disagree with me. those that rely on these scriptures are of the 'psychic' and not the 'nous'. then you must be wrong and evil. make the very error that they criticize.. a Division even in the One. beholding Evil therein." AL III." AL III. not that Division which we know for the Craft of Love.50: "Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!" AL III. and.AL III. And he goes on a Choronzic campaign of obfuscation. not being united in Understanding thereof. If you want to be influental on the web. and they suffer. endeth in Hotchpot. you have to repeat yourself : ) > >pj: At the very beginning of his work. for Love conquereth All.51: "With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross. the blasphemy against all gods of men. Mongol and Din. to find. you wrote: >Runar: >Yes but this is due to the general diversion on the understanding on what are the aethyrs for. With these. Yet in this even is no true Evil. but Ugliness and Deformity. he then rejects the truth >outright. This shows a dysfunctional Ruach right from the start. (I learnt by this a far different lesson. because. who seek by their Sorceries to confirm themselves in Division.53: "With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist. For they." AL III. are indeed the Servants of Sin. having understood the Heaven that is within thee. and in the Abominations of the Abyss.02 -0800. . There's no scientific mind at all when he rejects sound evidence so vehemently. to their Terror. conceive only of Darkness and Confusion.. not being united in Love with the whole Universe.despite any talent he may have. multiplying itself. >Ben Rowe started a campaigne on the enochian e-mail list to show that the path of Crowley was utterly wrong and the results came in because of preconceived expectations." And let's appeal to Crowley's writings directly: "Now. and being divided in Will. restricting themselves. as did the Manichaeans. o my Son..12. His view were heard as he wrote a lot.49: "I am in a secret fourfold word. they perceive not Beauty. learn this concerning the Hell of the Slaves of the Slavegods. Conflict upon Conflict. that it is true Place of torment. And of such the Lords are the Black Brothers. 93/93 pj From: Runar Message 23 in Discussion At 19:43 11. and in the Impotence and Envy of Choronzon. And this.52: "I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him. it should be that more obvious as to the nature of the work of the Black Lodge and the subtlety that it employs in hiring its dupes. and their Corruption and Disintegration is also the Victory of BABALON".54: "Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds. but a Division of Hate." AL III. according to thy Will. Thus at last they come. "nothing particular" and many things worse. they had to divorce themselves from the A. > >pj: This important aspect was tossed away by the Caliphate in the 1984ev maneuverings that led to the trial. Not directly. Rowe its rather easy to see his hatred of Crowley shining through. But cloaked in the intellectual scholars virtousity. For an Ipsissimus that has successfully passed the region of the zodiac.We must not forget that the old thruths of religion have in different ways been manifested in philosophy. I saw other places where such things seemed to be likely. it manifested as the compulsive thinking of two specific words. I think its wise to stick to groups of AA students .formally or nonformally.02 -0800. Isn't it interesting that recently. you wrote: >would this energy (under many names and forms) have anything to do with obsessive-compulsive disorder? 93 Cammy Hi Cammy.A. which seen by the mundane will result in descriptions like: " without substance" .A. Today it becomes so obvious that we must choose deliberately to uphold tradition. it is rightful to claim that there is no zodiac.'. they have been trying to claim themselves to be of Motta lineage? They? Is it those behind the chicago address ? M. So in claiming to be 'the' O.'.. As herein its possible to take for granted the respect and interest for initiation along systems as Tree of life.O.T. and it will be possible to spend the time on whats valuable and not just defense. but as I found that current the main power source of the section of aethyrs that was rather connected ( I regarded them to be or corresponding to the sephira Geburah). is A .'. And if that was weighed into their founding.P. but an illusion without no substance.o. even if the tradition itself is there to show it is anchored in a mystery. They knew that Motta had a legitimate claim to the Praemonstrance of the A. Starr or what? 93 93 Runar Message 24 in Discussion At 16:28 11. The work of the body spirit went over several of these aethyrs and I experienced something which could be labeled that (OCD). its just a work to produce argumentation to support the emotional engagement. .a. What we can know of A.12. which I regard as the some of the most valuable system ever. they would have to admit their illegitimacy as Motta never approved of their formulation. To me. When reading B. >Runar: >In order to defend the tradition set forth by Crowley.'. he blew me off. It involved a personal zombie form that I had to convince that the formula of life and expansion was not for him. rather have this ubsurd need to attack each other and make jerks out of us all. 93 Thanks :) I had a dream some days ago in which a guy in red was following me in one scene and he was walking funny and stiffly.. or rather the obsession part.'.. its just a work to produce argumentation to support the emotional engagement.A.'. I went out to Chicago last year and did attempt to make some contact with Starr..oi veh! 93/93 pj Hi Runar.my previous meditation exps was of help.. but that he would get it so much better if followed the ascetic path of selfrestriction.'. But cloaked in the intellectual scholars virtousity.who has claimed that I am not A. grades don't see this.'. . because I studied under Eales who is not A... 93 93 Runar.A.except maybe for the one's that properly kiss his ass. Hi Runar. It culminated in Lea that is the 15th aethyr (Zen 13th). by Motta (who cut contact with but didn't expel Eales).'.A... while writing down the dream afterwards i interpreted it as OCD.'.if the idiots would stop chasing me and just let me do that. Starr or what? pj: Yes.'. Rowe its rather easy to see his hatred of Crowley shining through..'. Martin Starr. The biggest problem with Thelema is that Thelemites can't show each other respect.So it was no severe case.A. Runar: They? Is it those behind the chicago address ? M.'.not too interested in meeting A.. 93 Runar Karlsen <[email protected]> wrote: When reading B. pj: I've spoken often of this logical fallacy and Ouspensky addresses it eruditely.P. but basically. but it made the difference in that I saw the gap between us. I am better now and finally can sleep well .) He rests in peace now. (I had to go within him and stop all attempts on even the slightest action .. and thus ceased thinking and saying anything at all. that same one who was 'expelled' from the A..A. though they should have done the work of the Daggar and the work of the Cup. people. I chose some time ago to lurk and withdraw. And so the sophistry of the Caliphate gets more and more incredulous with each glance one takes.'. What really interests me is how so many claiming high A. 93 Cammy .. 93 Cammy Hi Runar. and twitched and talked in his sleep.as I only really started having it during the summer and at the time I was going out with a guy who had it (he claimed homophobia). such as the clock. it doesn't have to be long-term though some people may not be able to totally eliminate it yet can tone it down to a barely noticeable minimum. 93 I also like the part of it seeming to be 'likely' in certain situations.though I still have a tendency to check/count/read things. But it's not something one is born with..