COLLECTING .410 SHOTSHELLS AND BOXES by Ronald W. Stadt This article concerns guns only tangentially. Suffice it to say that .410 ammunition has been chambered in hand guns such as Colt revolvers, the Stevens Auto Shot, and Ithaca Burglar Gun; inexpensive single shot tip up and bolt action repeaters; cane (walking stick) guns; rook rifles; lever actions such as the Marlin Model 410, Savage Model 99, and Winchester New Model 9410; over/unders such as Boss and Marlin; slide and auto loading repeaters; and in many doubles in England, Europe, and the USA. The three most common lengths of .410 shells (2 inch, 1 1/2 inch and 3 inch) History and origins of the .410 Shotshell In most of the world, one would be hard put to find a seasoned shot gunner who is not acquainted with . 410 guns and ammunition. One might be equally hard put to find a gunner who knows the origin of the . 410. In North America, many old gunners and some sports writers maintain that the .410 evolved from the .44XL. (This little shot cartridge was based on the .44-40 rifle/pistol case with shot in a protruding, paper sabot.) In his excellent but wordy book, American and British 410 Shotguns, Krause Publications, 2003, 208 pp., Ronald S. Gabriel cited esteemed gun sports writer Jack O’Conner’s statement that the .410 was a direct descendent of the .44-40 rifle cartridge. Such thinking probably stems from the fact that even older shooters used or knew of the .44XL before they encountered the .410 and the fact that, at their outsets, the two had similar uses—rats, snakes, and garden pests. Knowing that .410 guns and shells existed in Europe and England decades before they were manufactured in the USA, I can only offer that though the .44XL and .410 had similar utility initially, they are unrelated. Much of the information in this article has often appeared in the literature of shotshell collecting, especially the informal literature. Some of it has been extracted from items on http://www.4-10.freeuk.com/ and especially an email letter from Pietro Fiocchi, that is no longer on the 4-10 web site. Emails from Jim Buchanan improved focus and certain details and provided pictures of many .410 boxes. Jim and Peter Mc Gowan contributed to Gabriel’s book. .410 aficionados should purchase the book. Go to the 4-10 web site, click on the Amazon link and consider spending about $30.00 total. The .410 should be known only by its English dimensions. But the following dimensions are provided for comparison. Typical Dimensions of .410 Shotshells 410s from Jim Buchanan. to determine gauge and a bore system based on the kilogram.410 became the divider between serious guns and play guns and that this was probably the birth of the .) (12 mm).91 mm 11.410 Cartridges 1870s Both center fire and pin fire in Europe. manufacturer. some 25s boxes and crates have nomenclature such as: . 1885 Eley . Pietro Fiocchi.410-2 ½" 7 1/2ch.87 mm 51. The exact origin of the . the Gabriel book. Some time later.410 Perfect all brass. Pierto Fiocchi deemed that the . in 1810 France used two systems: One similar to the British system but based on a different pound." 3" Metric 13.410 ammo in "Shooting Times" and "The Field" advertisements. Italy. and South America. Bob Jensen. (36 ga. Germany.410 gun. 64. and myself. Wanting to be different from Britain. Time line of . Certainly guns and ammunition so designated existed in England and on the Continent decades before either was manufactured in the USA. the proof house decided that guns smaller than 10. 76 mm Mouth dimensions vary a good deal. The bore system was abandoned in 1868.. brands.410 shotshells and boxes. Perhaps someone will write and illustrate a book on .410 pin fire. and material. 1883 Purdey made .57-11. 1870s First Wilkes . etc. it only shows general progression in England. reflecting local designations for the .533" 9.410") would be tested differently from larger ones. (Round to .410 proved by London Proof House 1878 Gevelot catalog listed 12 mm (.410. More than a few discerning students of shotshell ammunition have calculated that 67 balls of 0. Europe.) The .Feature Rim OD Head OD Mouth Length English 0." 2 ½. Time Line for .4630 2. At least in America.410 diameter may well have been based on the .6 mm (approximately .4685" head OD 0.410 Shotshell Development The following time line represents information pertinent to .410—though officially 12 mm in France.470 and convert to 12 mm or do the calculations and get 36 gauge. 1886 Societe Francais de Munitions catalog described 12 mm shotshell.46750. June 1882 Kynoch listed . Thus. and the USA. Perhaps origin of 12 mm in Germany. depending on length.410. Additions are welcome. (Contemporary magazine articles continue to present controversies regarding effectiveness of the .410 head diameter. a complete listing would be voluminous. However.41 Rigby needle fire rifle of the middle 1800s. in a great many configurations.410" diameter equal one pound.35 mm 11. 1884 Kynoch listed .410) center fire and pin fire. It is plain to see that 12 mm and 36 gauge were derived from the .) • • • • • • • • • .410 may never be known.410 shotshells have been produced in more than 20 countries. because . Obviously. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • The London Proof House proved a .410/12 mm for rook rifles = 2" Gastight maroon or green or 12 mm all brass. 1927 Winchester Repeater Speed Load and dropped 2" new primed empty. 1933 Peters 3".410 circa 1887. 1927 Midland Gun Company (England) 3" double barrel.410 dimensions. 1892 Eley brass. 1915 Remington 1 ½". 1917 Peters 2" no cannelure. no. 1935 Ithaca 3" chamber. perhaps spearheaded by a German or Swiss wanting a logical progression the CIP used the 36 designation. 1933 Western Cartridge Company 3" and Winchester Model 42 development of which was changed from 2 ½" to 3" at behest of John M. then six pie. in England. In 1969 CIP added 36 in parentheses. 1939 Winchester rifled slug. For many years. first roll crimp.. drawn brass 1898 Kynoch Perfectly Gastight 2" paper or metallic and Thin Brass. and 28 gauges. 1891 Kynoch . More than a few generalizations may be drawn from this time line. 1903 London Proof House proved a cane (walking stick) gun.410 by Royal Proof House 1908 Kynoch had eliminated brass. 14 gauge disappeared and 32 reappeared. Thus hundreds of arms and ammunition manufacturers have historic and other reasons such as marketing and sales for using two or all three designations. In 1961 CIP made . among them the finest double gun makers.410s 36 magnum. Europe. 1926 Ithaca 2 3/8" chamber. and similar pin fire. 1893 Eley solid. 1902 Eley Improved Gastight. For example: By the late 1920s many manufactures. 1927-1939 ICI (British) brass. 1936 Winchester number 9s listed for skeet. green Extra Quality 2" 3/8 oz. 12. 1937 Winchester Super Speed 2 ½" and 3". In 1914. 1-12 shot sizes. Sometime in the 20s. 14. 1926 Fiocchi catalog showed "cabibro" . 410 the official designation. 1910 Eley Gastight pin fire and only solid drawn brass 1911 Eley and Kynoch 2 ½" 1914 Eley Fourten 2" and Fourlong 2 ½". Early 1960s marketing of plastic cases. 1923 Winchester 2 ½" loaded. 1931 Ithaca 2 7/8" chamber. 16. 20. 1919 Eley dropped pin fire and brass. 1921 Peters 2" and 2 ½" with cannelure. 24. and the USA made . Several times the European ruling commission on arms and ammunition (CIP) standardized shotshell nominal diameters.410 designation. 1904 First official reference to .410s 36 gauge and 3" . 1920 Winchester Repeater 2" and 2 ½" new primed empties. 1932 Speed Loads. 1899 Eley Thin Brass. manufacturers in Italy and other countries labeled 2" and 2 ½" . Later the CIP reverted to using the correct . Olin after purchase of Winchester. 1916 Winchester 2" Repeater quality. In the 20s and 30s. aluminum.Co.410s take little drawer space. wads.410 Shotshells (Single specimens) Collecting individual . Changes such as powders and powder charges. and 75 mm.410s. and 3" or 50. proof and other devices such as whale markers. all lengths.410 .A. The following illustrations show only one specimen from each of 20 countries. . pin fire and center fire. 2 ½". If one collected brass.C. lengths were standardized to 2". At this point one would appreciate that . experimental/developmental. and other characteristics often occurred sometime after similar changes to larger shotshells. NPE and loaded. If one collected by shot size. one could have 100 or more .S. and plastic. . all brands. paper.44XL [shown for contrast] Photo of the shotshell Argentina LA PORTENA 410 Australia and New Zealand [no head stamp] Belgium CL + 12 m/m + L Brazil VELOX 36 CBC Canada D. Collecting . case construction. one could several thousand. PETERS . 65. If one collected one shell from each manufacturer/commercial loader world wide. window and other dummies. one could have 1000 or more.410 shotguns.410 shotshells can be a lifetime endeavor.many kinds of . First in England and Europe and some time after elsewhere.410 Shotshell Specimens from 20 Countries Country & Headstamp U. shot sizes and weights. Japan N.P.0x75 France FABRIQUE GEVELOT PARIS 12 m/m Germany H.K No.410 Finland LAPUA 12.36. 36 Mexico AGUILA 410 CDM 410 Republic of South Africa S * P 410 410 .Czech Republic * 410 England E . UTENDOERFFER No 36 NURNBERG Italy GIVLIO FIOCCHI LECCO . 410 Shotshell Boxes To many collectors. boxes are more exciting than individual shells. . brands. etc. loads. Jim Buchanan provided pictures of more British boxes than space permits. Box labels changed more often and usually provide more information than shells. Boxes teach much about manufacturers. For now the following are shown as a small sample of the variety that awaits a collector.410 USSR 410 TCW Collecting .Russia [no head stamp] Spain 12 mm Turkey [ no head stamp] Uruguay CALIBRE 12 m/m USA . Two Eley boxes of 100 shotshells .. .. . A box from Camrose and five Eley boxes . . another English maker.Two boxes from Rossen. . from Shamrock and Trent. . Two more English boxes.